Chloe  0:07  
Hello, I'm Chloe Herbert Ballantyne. 

Joseph Ryan  0:09  
And I'm Joseph Ryan, 

Chloe  0:11  
and welcome to the very first episode of psychedelics in the sixth, a podcast that explores the use of psychedelics in Toronto. 

Chloe  0:18  
If you've been out and about in Toronto lately, you may have noticed an increase in psychedelic related things around the city, from posters, advertising shroom delivery services to psychedelic related group events, even mushroom dispensaries, these illegal substances seem to be gaining more and more traction in the mainstream. 

Joseph Ryan  0:35  
Now, before we get into the topic for this episode, Chloe, I hope you don't mind if I add a disclaimer, because I know my mom is gonna listen to this. So let me set the record straight. We've never actually done psychedelics ourselves. But we became curious as to what the experience of being on psychedelics is like, 

Chloe  0:52  
no worries, Joseph. We're not here to promote drug use to our listeners, but rather to explore the surge of psychedelics in the city. What is it about these drugs that's triggering such a trend? To find this out, we wanted to hear firsthand experience from someone who's done psychedelics before. So we chatted with Molly, a university student who was kind enough to share her stories under the condition that we referred to her by her first name only. 

Joseph Ryan  1:16  
Totally understandable. psychedelics are still illegal after all. Let's take a listen to Molly described her first encounter with psilocybin or as most people know them, magic mushrooms.

Molly  1:28  
I was never like, a huge, like, drug person. Like I wouldn't consider myself to be like, I don't know, I don't want to sound like weird, but like a druggie or whatever. But um, yeah, I've always been interested in it. And I have been a little bit scared. So me and my two friends. Last year, we took some on Earth Day. And it was like super sunny, it was great. And we went to a park. And it was, I think, probably one of like, the best experiences of my life. I think it's like, at least like in terms of like, happiness. Like, I don't think I've been happier. 

Joseph Ryan  2:11  
It sounds like being on shrooms was a very significant experience for her. But what a big claim to say she's never been happier than on shrooms, 

Chloe  2:18  
right? And coming from someone who was never a huge drug person before, it sounds like shrooms can be quite a significant experience. For some people. A common effect of taking shrooms can include visual and sensory hallucinations. Just as Molly explains,

Molly  2:33  
 I'm seeing these like things that are I've never seen before. Like, I look at a tree really closely. And it's really mesmerizing, and I want to look at it for longer, because I feel like it's almost breathing and that it's just like very miniscule things. And I think that's why it's really hard to describe this because it's, it's not like it's actually changing your perception of anything. It's just you're looking a lot more closer. 

Chloe  2:57  
These visual hallucinations have inspired many artists to create pieces based on their experiences. 

Joseph Ryan  3:02  
This concept has inspired Toronto's very own psychedelic art exhibit called psychedelics, the experimental exhibition. It's an exhibit based on bar street near Hyde Park. And according to its website, it's a groundbreaking immersive art experience. Inspired by the psychedelic renaissance that continues to change minds around the world. 

Chloe  3:21  
We had the chance to speak to Jamie Drayton, the creative director and executive producer about why he chose psychedelics as the focus of his Exhibit. 

Jamie  3:30  
Having been somewhat familiar with the world of psychedelics for probably 30 years,I've always been sort of aware that these substances were out there, but then in the last few years, of course, had been paying attention tothe newfound research and science and usage of psychedelic substances in a way that they hadn't been used and tested in a long time in safe settings, with sort of regulated amounts of these substances in sessions and therapies led by certified guides and professionalsto treat serious mental health conditions like PTSD, anxiety, depression, and addiction,and showing really positive benefits and results for those people suffering some of those conditions who had gone through these therapies. So psychedelics being a very colorful and interesting, mysterious topic that lends itself well to a experiential art show, on top of the timeliness of what's happening in the world of selling psychedelics. One day, the light bulb went off for me, this is a project worth pursuing. 

Chloe  4:54  
So Jamie talks a lot about the use of psychedelics in a therapeutic setting, which is probably one of the most significant points advocates are making in terms of legalization, with drugs like ketamine now even being legalized for the treatment of mental health conditions. 

Joseph Ryan  5:07  
This is definitely a trend with the use of psychedelics which led us to wonder how can they even help someone? I mean, we've grown up being taught that these drugs are supposed to be a bad thing. 

Chloe  5:19  
You're right, we've grown up with messaging that really stigmatizes psychedelic use. And with some good reason, of course, there are definitely some potential risks involved. But the latest research has shown some really promising advancements in the realm of mental health treatments. 

Chloe  5:33  
Jessica Flaman, who is a registered social worker helped educate us on psychedelic assisted therapy. 

Jessica  5:39  
To put it simply, it's a form of psychotherapy that involves the use of these psychedelic medicines, such as LSD, MDMA,psilocybin, and ketamine for the purpose of facilitating the therapeutic process. And so one thing that I that I do really want to emphasize is that the fruit of the work of psychedelic assisted psychotherapy itself is not the experience not necessarily the psychedelic experience, but rather the insights and shifts that happen afterwards to the process of integration. 

Joseph Ryan  6:11  
So as Jessica explains, it's not the psychotherapy itself that benefits people, but rather the shift in perspective that psychedelics can trigger, 

Chloe  6:19  
I could totally see how a shift in perspective could help someone with their mental health issues. In our chat with Molly, she delved into her own experience with profound shifts in mindset, all thanks to her psychedelic use. 

Molly  6:31  
Honestly, in the last year, I think I've become such a different person from doing shrooms. And I think that there's like a collection of it's not just the shrooms, obviously. But I've had, so I've had three experiences with like a bigger dose, and then over the summer, I've done like, some microdosing throughout. And all of those experiences have been really great. And I think like, it truly does almost clear something up for you of just like, I don't know, the the conversations that you have, when you're on shrooms are very much to do with like, the meaning of life and like what everything is and why we're all here. And like, I think the at least the conversations I have have always been like, everything is really silly, like everything we do, like, why do we get up in the morning on time and like go to our little jobs like no one really is telling us to do that we just kind of do it. 

Joseph Ryan  7:33  
What Molly describes is similar to what Jessica's patients experience in their sessions, 

Jessica  7:38  
folks often experience a separation from self and mind in mind and body which allows them to see themselves and their suffering from a place of objectivity, which is something that we might not be able to achieve in everyday life.

Chloe  7:52  
Of course, just because patients are taking psychedelics, specifically ketamine, with the help of an expert, Molly takes rooms for recreation, and we want to be sure to make the distinction that these are two very different drugs, and two very different settings. But it's definitely interesting to reflect on the similarities. 

Joseph Ryan  8:09  
This conversation really brings me back to Jamie's art exhibit. 

Joseph Ryan  8:15  
He drew a lot of inspiration from the advancements of psychedelic assisted therapy, which is why the first floor of the exhibit is literally set in the modern world of psychedelic use, with the first thing guests seeing is a therapist office with a chair and headphones to simulate the experience of psychedelic assisted therapy. 

Chloe  8:33  
It makes sense why Jamie plays such a big emphasis on psychedelic therapies. With all these advancements, people have started to turn to self medication to treat their own issues, which has actually led to the opening of Toronto's first ever mushroom dispensary called shroomyz. 

Joseph Ryan  8:47  
Funnily enough, the opening of shroomyz is actually what inspired us to create this podcast. We were curious as to how a store could publicly sell an illegal drug out in the open. 

Chloe  8:58  
Shroomyz sells psilocybin products not for recreation, but for self medication. They require each customer to fill out a self diagnostic form, stating what they hope the shrooms will help them treat. 

Joseph Ryan  9:10  
After a few weeks of selling shrooms to Toronto's public in the fall of 2022 shrooms was raided by Toronto Police. This whole fiasco is very reminiscent of marijuana dispensaries before legalization in Canada. 

Chloe  9:26  
But while we're still on the topic of treatment, it seems as though the tides are changing around the legalization of psychedelics for medical use. 

Jessica  9:33  
Another couple of years medicines such as psilocybin and MDMA will be legalized and people will have more access to them on a therapeutic level. 

Joseph Ryan  9:41  
While Jessica thinks legalization in medical settings is not far ahead, I think it's safe to say that widespread legalization will lag behind.

Chloe  9:50  
 However, the overall efforts of people like Jamie to destigmatize psychedelics has led to the general public wanting to try out psychedelics for either self medication or just for a good time. 

Joseph Ryan  10:01  
I mean, I can see why the appeal to people let's listen to Molly share some more of her insight. 

Molly  10:06  
The feeling for me like the only way to describe it I was felt this like very overwhelming sense of like, love. It sounds silly, but like, I don't know, I think that I was with my two friends. I just like turned to them. And I was like kind of about to start crying and I was like, I don't know how to say this, you guys, I've just like, really love you like really, really love you. And like, it feels like you know that already. So it feels like I don't have to say that but like, I need to express this in some way but like love doesn't feel like enough.

Chloe  10:47  
And with that we leave you for today. We hope you enjoyed hearing about the people in places working to destigmatize psychedelic use in the city. 

Joseph Ryan  10:55  
Make sure you listen to next week where we will be exploring micro dosing.

Chloe  10:59  
 Thank you for joining us. Bye guys.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai