HIPHOP
Tue, 12/21 2:06PM • 23:40
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
rap, music, people, hip hop, sound, rapper, drake, kanye, humor, artist, cardi, shit, bruiser, albums, favorite rappers, detroit, genre, trends, vanessa carlton, listen
SPEAKERS
Afua Mfodwo, Isaac Fontes, Bruiser Wolf, Dylan Green

Afua Mfodwo  00:04
Hip Hop is a genre of music that is constantly evolving. And this episode of unraveled, producer Isaac Fontes sits down with experts to figure out what the future of hip hop will sound like. My name is Afua Mfodwo. and this is unraveled?

Isaac Fontes  00:48
What will the future of hip hop sound like? It's really quite hard to tell considering the genre is ever changing, and has been ever since birth in the 1970s. Most notably, there has been a widespread inclusion of melodies, and much more abstract flows within recent years. With this, the production and beats have changed as well. It's gone from sounding like this. To this someone who devotes all of his free time to listening to music and discovering new music 90% of it being hip hop, I'm curious to know what the future of the genre will sound like. I've grown up alongside the genre, its creativity and patheticness. Amazingly, more and more each and every day, each new rapper I discover and love is different from the last and it keeps me coming back. For more as I've gotten older, I've introduced myself to the many sub genres that exist within hip hop, and I've developed my musical taste into what it is today, the amount of music being put out these days can be overwhelming, so I reached out to Dylan Green to better help me understand what the future of hip hop will sound like. Dylan is an editor at pitchfork and also the host of his very own podcast real note where he interviews artists and talks about the relationship between music and film two of his favorite things. I started off by asking him what he's been listening to these days.

Dylan Green  02:02
The bruiser brigade album TV 62, which has been driving me crazy that yeah, like bruiser brigade is having such an incredible year like especially bruiser Wolf, like shout out to all of them.

Isaac Fontes  02:12
Brewster brigade is a record label and rap group started by Detroit's own Danny Brown who's widely considered to be one of the best rappers of the 2010. They have an impressive roster of rappers and making them one of the most exciting groups and all of hip hop right now. The group consists of Danny Brown himself show us that Ray Quinton Ahmad to Godzilla loopers and one of my favorite rappers cruiser was his voice and flow is literally unlike anything else I've heard before in the best way possible. He raps in a high pitched voice and is able to include humor in his bars in such a unique way. I reached out to him to be a part of the podcast as well thinking that it would be a long shot to get to talk to one of my favorite rappers but he was generously down to talk to me we hear from him and just a bit once we get to talking about the trend of humor in hip hop. Here's who Dylan has also currently been listening

Dylan Green  02:48
to. She's a Korean from Texas but out to new albums last week, and those have been in heavy rotation love both of them. They're great TISA

Isaac Fontes  02:55
Korean is a great place to start when it comes to talking about trends in hip hop. He's an artist and dancer from Texas, who makes music that is simply meant to be danced to relying heavily on trends in what's popular at the time to attract a young audience. Couple of songs have dance routines to them on Tik Tok, most notably the mop dance, which gained a lot of attention online in 2019. His music relies solely on energy and vibe and therefore is not concerned with lyricism in the slightest

Dylan Green  03:15
but his music is very much from Texas like you can tell he's an artist from Texas his stuff specifically like he had that that moment with the mob dance that almost like that was probably like the closest he came to having like a viral moment quote unquote, but like I don't really know that he's been trying for something like that again, like I feel like regionalism is something that's not super talked about in rap right now because the thing is gone global so sometimes we forget that a lot of this stuff is coming from specific region and it's always nice to you know, like it's great to be a part of the whole but like one of the things that makes rap unique is that rap doesn't sound the same in every place you know, like Tennessee rat doesn't sound like Florida rat doesn't sound like Texas Rat doesn't sound like New York rap doesn't sound like New Orleans rap or Michigan rap or California like it's all different. You can usually not always you can usually tell who's who depending on where they're from the like, of course, there's people you know, with the internet, it makes it easier to like mix and match different styles. regionalism is still very important. Even though the internet is kind of democratized. The way people consume and absorb rap culture is an interesting mix. It's an interesting time to be a rap fan in that respect. It's really It's weird, but like you can tune in, you know, we're here

Isaac Fontes  04:23
originality and hip hop is important to consider because each state or city that is home to its own scene has its own distinct sound and trend is still in the simple yet rather complex question, what will the future of hip hop sound like?

Dylan Green  04:34
Honestly, I think it's hard to tell. And I think that's the beautiful thing about it. You know, like you were saying before, hip hop is ever evolving. In my opinion, probably the most adaptable form of music maybe not ever created, but like it's the most adaptable form of music we have. Now for me, the thing I always think about is like hip hop is always so close to just like trends in general. You know, like rappers were some of the first people to embrace the internet as like a place for MUSIC You know, like they were among the first and they were also among the first to really hitch their wagon to the streaming thing when you look at like, like early SoundCloud and early YouTube and all that stuff, rap really lends itself to just kind of innovation in that way because like, at its core, it's about taking a whole bunch of old elements and turning it into something new. And like embracing newness, really, you know, like, it's like, it's like a bunch of it's like a bunch of software updates, like a whole bunch of patches, like every, like 567 years. It's just a new patch and they just take it in super quick. Like I don't even know where hip hop is gonna be in a year. Honestly, bro, like, I don't know where it's gonna be in a year 510 20 I appreciate that, you know, on top of it, making my job more challenging. Like it's just I just think that's more interesting. Like, I just think it's more interesting to not know where it's going, but I love where it's at right now. There's too much good shit going on for me to be like Grumpy.

Isaac Fontes  05:49
But the growing popularity of the rap group grizzled, which consists of three rappers from the streets of buffalo Westside Gunn, Conway the machine and Benny the butcher has come the reemergence of the old school hip hop sound that was so prevalent in the 90s. The genres golden age, they stick to many, if not all the traditional characteristics of hip hop and rely solely on their rapping abilities in their music. There are no melodies or obscure production, which can be a breath of fresh air. And when you take a look at where hip hop has strayed throughout the past several years with the sound also comes old school bars, grimy rhyme schemes and punch line or bars and classic rhyme schemes back because of them

Dylan Green  06:19
Oh, it's been back. Yeah, it's it's I was just thinking about this a little while ago because like rock Marciano is the guy he's the one who like he didn't start it but like he played a really big role in reviving that sound and like even like innovating it because like his music, at least is newer music isn't like full on boom bap is like barely any drums on it most of the time. Like there's this movement of people who are just like rhyming over just bear loops. And I think that's really fire. Like, I think, you know, like, I think that sound is so foundational to rap as a whole that is never really ever gonna go away. And it never did. But it's definitely having a huge moment right now like Zelda definitely helps with that a ton. It's like Q tip said on excursions from A Tribe Called Quest, the Low End Theory Everything moves aside, you know, like, and like the pendulum has just come back to this like foundational sound. So I definitely think that yeah, it's it's, it's here, I don't know if it's gonna be here forever. But you know, like that, that sound, whatever you want to call it is definitely having a moment right now, another thing that's kind of happening right now is like people are being more raw and open, a lot of artists are figuring out that people want to know about you. It's a delicate balance, obviously, because like, you don't want to give too much of yourself away and like get exploited. So I think it's definitely here. And I don't want to say it's a new wave, because like you said, like, people have been telling stories and raps forever, never really gone away and never really even became unpopular. But I think people are just giving more of themselves. It feels like we're at a point now where people are just more comfortable being themselves whatever that means, like a little dark and little baby or to have like the rise people in the game right now. I think a lot of people take that for granted because of how popular they are. Even little baby put out one of the biggest albums of the year, but like they're telling stories, and then you want to go a little further underground to like this kind of new movement with people like you know, like Mike and navy blue and a chi solo and Maasai. And all these people like they're also pouring their hearts out the will we're raw keeps coming up. And it's the only way I could describe it. Like it's just it's just like heart on table music more people are starting to realize that it's easier to connect with an artist if you can feel not even if you can feel yourself in them, but like if you can feel that there's something there. That's the important part. So I think I think that's great. 

Isaac Fontes  08:29
So who has an influence on the hip hop game right now

Dylan Green  08:32
Derek and baby definitely I think Tyler has a huge influence right now Megan the stallion has a huge influence right now. So I would say like the four or five of them pretty much everybody in Detroit like you could you could like take your pick of every Detroit rapper right now like from people like Danny Brown and bruiser brigade to everything going on with like with like ice where VEVO and real young OG free Rio. I could sit here and name every Detroit and Flint rapper but like they've kind of had everything in a chokehold. Like everybody wants to make jokes and flow like on the Detroit beats right now and the flint beat now like there's so many people who have such an interesting grasp, but I think like Detroit, and everybody I mentioned, they've kind of got the game in a chokehold. And it's really incredible. He

Isaac Fontes  09:14
mentioned the Detroit and Flint Hip Hop scenes, which I think is so important, most of the rappers coming out of Flint are able to include humor in personality into their rap unlike any others in the game right now,

Dylan Green  09:22
it's an interesting conversation to have, because some of them are kind of pushing back against the notion of their raps being funny, but like there is an element of humor into the things that they say because it's so shocking. And so like you said, raw, which I feel like is the word of the day at this point, but like, you know, it's um, I think people are gonna gravitate toward you if you can make them laugh, like regardless of whether you mean to or not. And you know, you just look at anybody rapping in Detroit and Flint right now, especially somebody like y and j or somebody like baby Tron, who like kind of really lean into that humorous aspect of their music dash it travels humor will take you to the stars, if you can pull it off, right and as long as you're not NASA Honestly, but um, you know, like, I think I think I really do think that humor, you know, taken in the proper context is a really important part of that and just like it's, it's, it's then like we were saying before, it's them giving themselves to people like that's their personality and like, if you can sense that personality, it's gonna make it that much easier to connect with the music. So I think they all just have a really strong grasp of personality. I think I think that's what it comes down to. Ultimately,

Isaac Fontes  10:24
one of the best examples of a rapper who has gained popularity for their humor is the aforementioned bruiser Wolf. I asked him what he thinks the future of hip hop will sound like.

Bruiser Wolf  10:31
Shoot if I got anything to do with it. It's gonna sound like me. So unpredictable, man, you never know what can happen, you know, who would have knew like the auto takeover the way it did to the melodic rap. You never know which way it's gonna go. But you know, something new and refreshing always seems to keep the sour come in for the future. But if we got anything do we meet definitely sound like we do want to grow super gay. Timmy. I'm a fan of hip hop, rap, or whatever, you know, say all genres, but like, it's more entertaining. It's more fun, even as a fan. So listen to somebody that's different or the wordplay or something. So you know, I'll call to listen to you know, Sandy and as an artist is really more fun to space or shitness hard like the sport of the bar beats to really be a part of it. Get fun when you get off to the artistic part of the metaphors assemblies, the stances, the cadence of it, you know what I'm saying? Instead of just trying to cheat your way

Isaac Fontes  11:27
over a heart has been in terms of who asked him how he found his unique voice

Bruiser Wolf  11:31
that was rapping no sound just like everybody like street dude, just with my content that I talked about, you know, sound like what everybody else is doing. It was saturated. My father raised me, all he listened to was Blue Magic stylists he liked he liked the tenors, the falsetto voices and I wanted to separate myself. I'm like, These guys make timeless music. I was listen to the stylistics or whatever and to do just high pitch boys you make me feel every song is like that is just, you know, I'm saying and I I knew I had a voice I really got sick one day and went into the studio was like them, you can just lift the bulb up, tap into this. And then when I started tapping into it, it was like, I can't go back. It was like I'm a rapper tenor, in a sense. So you know, if we go change the sound of the feature, he might have more tenor rappers, you know, I'm saying, I mean, maybe I started that Sure. Had to

Isaac Fontes  12:22
ask him about two important aspects of hip hop that I talked about with Dylan as well. Humor and storytelling two things that he does so well as a rapper.

Bruiser Wolf  12:29
The humor part. I definitely believe it should be a part of it. Because to me, it expands the art for me, you know, I mean, we both just really talk about serious shit all the time getting money, women and women just really talking about me and how to get money from me or you know, I'm saying if somebody makes doesn't say funny, it's funny because we all can we can all experience some witty they said, Oh, shit, we all human we all gonna do the same shit. But I think you got to laugh, keep from cram and laugh. Like the best thing in the world. It brings out the bars too is like metaphorically you can or you can say some stuff that means something sound different, or however, but if you can bring out humor in it, it means so much more. It's like damn, it might not be a tiger like that. But it was funny. Damn that I'm talking about some serious but I say some shit. That was That was funny. But it was funny cuz I seem to know, it's kind of I'm thank God for that gift. Storytelling to draw me in like that, you know, make me listen to a story. I think that's the beauty of hip hop. I think all artists should do more storytelling. If you ain't dope as a rapper, at least you can do is make a story. Don't say like, I think people should get more often to that but to Dopler stories really, really is it brings out the best in your art.

Isaac Fontes  13:50
Speaking of humor, Drake just dropped his highly anticipated album certified Loverboy earlier this year, and there are some humorous moments on it. Like when he calls himself a lesbian and when he and future interpolate, right, said Fred's classic, I'm too sexy not to mention the album cover of 12 pregnant emojis

Dylan Green  14:04
I don't even know why I didn't mention him before like Drake is Drake is probably the most influential rapper walking the earth right now. You know, he like he's just he just has this ability to tap into anything and just like turn it into his own thing. He's He's a chameleon in that way. And that's, you know, like there's there's benefits and drawbacks to being that type of artist like it's, it's it's too complicated to just, you know, section off to this one section of a podcast, but like, Drake makes it he makes himself necessary. Like, whenever he makes an album, it becomes an event. He's like, one of the last existing pieces of like, model culture. I feel like like rap has and like pop culture in general has, like, everybody knows who Drake is, you know, like, even like, if you don't know him from the music, you know, the Degrassi connection or whatever, like he used to have that big of a persona. He's just really good at like folding himself into wherever he needs to be and just making himself necessary. Drake is just so like, regardless of whether or not he has any classic albums, we still talk about he's still charts. He still drops number one albums he still puts out singles that move millions of units keys, he makes himself necessary. He's always around whether or not you like him you're talking about and for somebody like Drake, that's usually enough to just be around like he's always gonna be there. It's weird because you would expect somebody around that age to stop exploring the way he does. But you could tell here he has like a real hunger for this stuff Drake is Drake is fascinating. He's really weird and gross and great. And like, he's a lot like he's, he embodies so much and he's fascinating, man. That's all I can say about Drake. He's fascinating. And then of course, comes the whole topic of like, did Drake make it make it make it cool to sing and rap? Like, he's not the first person to do that? He popularized it for a specific generation of people, you know, and like, I think, I think a lot of people like younger than Drake are still kind of chasing that like rap song sound because of him. I think, for a certain set of people Drake was the first person to do that. That's, that can't be denied. And it really made an impact on people to the point where like, if you hear somebody singing, like if you hear a rapper kind of singing, you're gonna be like, Oh, that kind of sounds like Drake, but there are also plenty of other rappers who have like, dabbled in melody. So it's, it's it's weird, but like, just considering how big he is. That's usually the first place people go, you know, is like, Oh, I just, oh, you sounds like Drake, right? Because you could even say like, Kanye did that too, with like, 808 and heartbreak because like that came out before Drake really had his before he really started his run, but it's once again like, it's, it's it's complicated. It's put it that way, it's complicated.

Isaac Fontes  16:31
What about Kanye Drake's nemesis? Does he have any influence?

Dylan Green  16:34
I can't really call it at this point, man. Like I like I want to say yeah, because like his production, like maybe not so much in terms of like that. I mean, again, in terms of the music, but I'd say more in terms of like, that's where you get into, like, specific like technique and sensibility, because like a big thing about Kanye is just he tries to never do the same thing twice. And I think like, just like that devil may care attitude to like creating and producing and like editing music, I think that shows up in a lot of different places. Like I like I could sit here for the next two hours and name artists who are like, directly influenced by Kanye, he's easily one of the most influential artists rap has ever seen. Like, it's undeniable, the influence he has on his game, you know, like, at the top, like at the top and on the ground, you know, his DNA is everywhere. And it's just once again, fascinate, you know, like, he's something bro. I can't handle him. I have to remind myself sometimes just how influential he is, you know, like, I remember when college dropout came out. And like he's like, a generate, like, he's become a generational artist in that way, like, in the way that like, Snoop Dogg is he's put out albums, but he's become like this massive pop culture figure that just like every reason commercials, he has the Martha Stewart show and all this other shit, you know, like Kanye has kind of he's kind of like that, because like for me, I grew up on you know, college dropout, late registration, graduation, Kanye and then there's people who came in at weights and heartbreak. And then there are more people who came in during Pablo, you know, so like Kanye means different things to different generations. And on top of the fact that he's this incredibly controversial figure. He's a generational artist. He's very interesting in his he has great music, and he's very influential, but he's a lot

Isaac Fontes  18:08
and what about Playboy cardi? I feel like he has a lot of influence on the game right now, especially on artists like trippy red and heat who seem to rely on energy and rage rather than lyrics in their music.

Dylan Green  18:17
cardi cardi is influences steadily growing, you know, like, he's kind of, he's been in this crazy position since Magnolia drop, and he's another artist who's someone who kind of like changes with every project, you know, like cardi is an artist who's like Kanye, in the sense that he's always trying to push himself and always trying new things. And we always need people who are willing to try new things and kind of like give people a new template to kind of build themselves from cardi is a lot. You know, he's also a lot. He's just like, he's just like, really weird and strange. And he's his lanky do with the dyed hair dresses and punk clothes and like, like, people want to be that and I'm like, that's beautiful. Like, that makes me so happy. Like, people thought that he was gonna kill rap. Like, every three years. There's just one person. Like, if it's not cardi, it's Yadi. You know, like, it's always like, there's this one person who's like, oh, rap is dead, because this person is here. And I'm like, Okay, so these are the people who are really pushing the shit forward, and the grumps are gonna grump in like, I knew like he's gonna be a Firestarter forever. So I saw him he did maybe about 50% of his lyrics and like, wrapped over the vocals the whole time and just spent the whole other time just like running across the stage with like fire and smoke and everything. And it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. He just makes everything spectacular. Yeah. And it's just that energy exchange, you know, like, nothing needs to be said for energy to be exchanged. Like if you can do that, well then like, bam, like you're off to the races. You could go on YouTube and SoundCloud and audiomack and everywhere now and find a million people who want to sound like Playboy cardi, it's undeniable. Once again, DNA everywhere.

Isaac Fontes  19:43
I know sampling is another foundational characteristic of hip hop, but there seems to be a lot of it being done in the hip hop that's being put out today, especially a lot of more obvious ones like we saw with young ace and other Florida rappers who sampled a Vanessa Carlton song and one of their tracks from earlier this year, even though it was so obvious it still got cleared and was even supported by Vanessa Carlton herself. One of my favorite rappers right now. His name is Shawni Bin Ladin and he's from New York. He raps in whispery, yet kind of threatening flow and he seems to have a mixtape taken down from streaming services every couple of weeks because they contain samples that I guess he wasn't even able to clear. Regardless, sampling has been around forever is it here to stay?

Dylan Green  20:15
That's never gonna go away. Because like, that's even happening in the mainstream, like sweeties done that a bunch of times like 40 lanes built an entire career off nothing but that shit, you know, that's just like always gonna be a thing for me. Like, it's it's never really gone away. And it's always kind of been super prevalent. I think the thing that's gonna change is like what specifically is being sampled because like we said before, everything goes in cycles. So it's just like, the stuff is just gonna start moving. Like, you know, we're kind of in like the early to mid to maybe late 2000s That kind of fascination is taking over now. Like, it won't be long until we're going to be sampling songs from 2010. You know, like, like, it speaks to the longevity of those songs being sampled. And it speaks to just like the impact that this music continues to have on people and just like how it can be how it's like this aura Boris effect and just like it's kind of feeds itself. There's no other kind of music that I can think of that really feeds itself in the same way that rap does. And I think that's beautiful. At the end of the day,

Isaac Fontes  21:09
hip hop will always contain some of if not all of its traditional characteristics in one way or another. It will also always be connected to pop culture and therefore lend itself to whatever is trendy at the moment. Some of it is just that though a trend and will soon be forgotten, but most of it will live forever because of its ability to tell a story, paint a picture and act as a voice for the voiceless. Whether it adheres to trends or not, you know,

Dylan Green  21:29
like rap is pop culture right now to like rap fans are kind of having this beautiful moment where the world is speaking our language in a way you know, like it's like some people don't always get it and it sounds kind of corny sometimes like it depends, but like the world is at least attempting to speak our language right now. And that's crazy. This just started from a blackout in the Bronx, you know, like my dad was alive for that shit. Like he was like he was like a 40 year old man when hip hop first started so like this shit is like it's about like hip hop as a genre as a culture is about to turn 50 years old and like a couple of years and like I don't really see it I don't really see that innovation going anywhere anytime soon and smell the roses while you can because like we're having a moment and there's so much beautiful shade out here

Bruiser Wolf  22:12
always give respect to the pioneers respect to the people that do true set you know Sam but also you know believe he is so you know, saying Never give up or what you're doing perfect your craft said your true God bless hip-hop.

Afua Mfodwo  22:59
This episode of unraveled was produced by Isaac Fontes. Our associate producer is Talha Hashmani and our executive producer is Elena De Luigi. Special thanks to John Powers for composing our theme music, and Ben Shelley for creating our podcast artwork. Our professor is Amanda Cupido and special thanks to Lindsay Hanna and Angela Glover.








- 1 -
00Transcribed by https://otter.ai