FILM Tue, 12/21 6:18PM • 17:18 SUMMARY KEYWORDS theaters, movie, pandemic, people, movie theater, film, streaming services, watching, paul, streaming, release, great, consumer, film critic, streaming platforms, screen, damon, years, home, unraveled SPEAKERS Tom Ernst, Clip, Afua Mfodwo, Alexander Hanimyan, Nick Baldwin, Paul Dergarabedian, Damon Martin Afua Mfodwo 00:04 The closure of theatres at the start of the pandemic meant that fewer people had access to cinemas and more people watch films online. In this episode producers, Alex Hanimyan and Nick Baldwin, unravel how the film industry has navigated the pandemic, and what the future of film distribution will look like. My name is Afua Mfodwo, and this is unraveled. Nick Baldwin 00:36 The COVID-19 pandemic impacted all industries, but especially the film industry. In March 2020 theaters across North America and the rest of the world were forced to close because of the ongoing health crisis. Meanwhile, the movie industry as we knew it, back then, was about to change forever. I'm Nick Baldwin. Alexander Hanimyan 00:57 And I'm Alexander Hanimyan via this is the segment about the future of how people will consume movies. First, to catch us up on what happened over the past 20 months. We spoke with Damon Martin. Damon is the founder and owner of nerdcoremovement.com, a website that covers the entertainment industry, including movies, TV shows, and other pop culture. Damon Martin 01:22 I mean, I think it affected everybody, but I think it was particularly devastating to the entertainment industry because, you know, movie theater shut down, you know, movie releases were pushed back or canceled or, or you know, completely, you know, re you know, reorganized because of the pandemic, television shows how to stop production. So it was pretty, I mean, it was pretty dramatic and pretty impactful. I mean, you know, again, we had, you know, there's a lot of stuff that was already in the bank, a lot of a lot of filming that already been done. But on the flip side of that was is that you know, everything else that was either coming out or expected to be coming out, I had to be putting the can and put away so you know, kind of delayed a lot of what I was able to do in my job in terms of coverage just because there wasn't stuff coming out. Nick Baldwin 02:06 The release dates of some movies were pushed back while other movies still in production were brought to an outright halt. As the year 2020 progressed, many studios went ahead with the release of their movies, but that often happened via streaming platforms such as Netflix, HBO, Max, and Amazon Prime, not in theaters like normal. Because COVID-19 was and still is anything but normal. Alexander Hanimyan 02:31 Nearly two years since the pandemic hit theaters are now opening back up. But in some ways, we're in a similar spot as we were back in 2020. And earlier in 2021. Movies are being released in multiple ways, some in theaters, some on streaming platforms, and some using a hybrid model known as day and date release, where the movies get released both in theaters and on streaming services simultaneously. And it appears that the future of movie distribution is very much up in the air. Will theaters dominate the movie market once again, or will streaming platforms take over. Nick Baldwin 03:10 Paul Dergarabedian, the senior media analyst at comScore tends to think we may not go back to a pre pandemic normal, but that theaters will still dominate new releases for years down the road. Paul deals with statistics and information about the box office and he analyzes the success or lack thereof of movies. Paul Dergarabedian 03:29 I actually feel like for the even smaller movies, that the best release model involves a theatrical window in less than movie was conceived as either an episodic TV show or a movie designed for the small screen. But otherwise, I think the whole point of the movie theater is that you get it there first, you get that prestige and exclusivity. And then it gives that movie a greater desirability. I think filmmakers want their movies in theaters. And again, as we saw this summer with Black Widow talent, often their their monetary gain, you know, deals their money deals are based on theatrical box office. Why? Because that's where you're getting a lot of money. And even a tiny percentage of that again, Avengers end game, close to you know, around 2.8 billion worldwide, you don't make $2.8 billion. Not that all that went to the studio shared with theaters do and talent and all that. But you're not going to make $2 billion on a movie just on streaming. It's just not going to happen. The the financial metrics are not there. Alexander Hanimyan 04:39 Not only is there a financial benefit to releasing movies in the theaters, but there's a uniqueness to the experience of watching a movie in a theater that just can't be matched at home on a streaming platform. Paul Dergarabedian 04:52 The movie theater has not gone the way of the let's say the pay telephone because there's something singular and unique about going to the movie theater Also, for any film fan like myself, it is a emotional experience going to a movie and we have that connection to the movie theater experience. And that's not going away. I think a lot of people thought it would, because convenience is great, but that doesn't feed your soul. What feeds your soul is going to a movie, having a great time talking about it with people in the lobby, and then going home and ruminating on the film and the themes and what happened in that film. So convenience is great. One click away is awesome. But you got to have that bigger than life experience, whether it be going to a concert, a live show, you know, on the theatrical stage, or a sporting event. There's just nothing like seeing those events in person. It's a very analog experience. And I think we all love those as human beings. Alexander Hanimyan 05:50 Damon echoes Paul's thoughts about watching a movie in the theatre. Damon Martin 05:55 I remember one of my favorite movie going experiences the last few years was going to see Avengers Infinity War in theaters. And I'm sorry for spoiling anything but the end of the movie, there's a pretty dramatic ending. And I remember in the theater, like I, I'm a big comic book guy, so I kind of I had no idea what was gonna happen. I didn't know how they were going to get there. But I had a pretty good idea what was gonna happen. And so when it actually happened in the theater, it was crazy. Like there was this hushed silence. And there were actually people like there are some people crying in the theater and like it was just so and then on. Again, when Avengers endgame came out a year later, when you know, all the heroes kind of mounted together to fight the final battle. I mean, the crowd was just a applaud and applauded and, and there's just you can't get that experience. In a way. It's like going to a concert like I go watch a million concerts on on YouTube or streaming, but it doesn't replace being there for the actual concert. And that's kind of what movie theater going is about. Alexander Hanimyan 06:52 Some people prefer watching movies at home. One of them is Tom Ernst, a Toronto based film critic for the website, original sin.ca. He avoids the theaters on busy nights like Fridays and Saturdays because he doesn't want to be distracted by people while he's trying to review a movie. In fact, that happened to another film critic he knows and it changed the way he viewed the movie. Tom Ernst 07:17 Jeff porvair a very good film critic, years ago, wrote an article about how going to see a certain film at a press release with the student with an audience. And then granted the junket really altered his opinion of it in that it he really thought he loved the film, and then only later, and he wrote the review of very favorable review. And only later did he realized, this isn't such a great movie that he was sort of swept up in the moment. Sometimes you could be influenced by your surroundings. And I really find that when I watch a film on my own, in my own time, I can be I'm dedicated to my opinion of that film. I'm not influenced by the person sitting beside me. And I think that's essential. I think it's really essential even when you go to a big screen movie for critic to disengage from everything else around them. And just focus on what I'm what is happening on screen, and how that is affecting you. It's actually very zen way of watching a movie. Nick Baldwin 08:23 Even before the pandemic streaming services, such as Netflix, were gaining momentum and popularity in the movie industry. Paul says he thinks COVID-19 actually showed why a more dominant day to day release plan was never going to work in the long term. I've Paul Dergarabedian 08:39 been known to say we packed 10 years of change into one year. And that's really what what this did. But we also packed 10 years of well analysis into one year. So now if if we were heading towards a day and date model for most films, well now we're not because we got to test it in real time over the past year and a half. So that's it is intriguing. And it is interesting that this unforeseen event unlike any other except maybe you'd go back to the 1918, you know, the pandemic of 1918. That's a whole different story. But there are parallels here. But I think it really all these outcomes, I think will ultimately be good for the industry, even though it came out of a absolutely tragic and, you know, unforeseeable event. Nick Baldwin 09:28 Ultimately, there appears to be a place for both movie theaters and streaming platforms. Paul Dergarabedian 09:34 I think that the small screen and the big screen are complementary and additive, not adversarial as everybody makes them out to be. And over time, studios are going to figure out what's the best course of action. Nick Baldwin 09:47 Still, Paul thinks theaters will have to up their game to compete with the constant evolution of streaming services and the fact that people are being more selective in what they pay for in the aftermath of the pandemic. Paul Dergarabedian 10:00 Well, I think part of it is just creating a great in theater experience. And the buttered popcorn is great and all that. But you know, there's a certain level of, of quality that people expect, not only in the presentation of movies, but just the seats, like the whole environment, when you go into a beautiful restaurant that's like your favorite restaurant, there's a reason for that. And often you're willing to pay more to get that that upscale experience. And I think people just, if I'm going to leave my home and go somewhere, it has to be extra special because consumers are becoming more selective. But theaters also have to realize this isn't 1980 this isn't 1990 this is now we're in a different era, where because the pandemic, people have been presented with more options than ever before. And so consumers are going to be more selective on what movies they see in the theater. So that theaters not only with perhaps dynamic pricing, with subscription based services, that that for families are really important because it's very expensive to take a family of four or five to a movie theater, and then maybe some giveaways. I don't know. I mean, at these movie conventions, hardcore hard edge. Movie executives are like clamoring to get a free T shirt, or a hat or a tchotchke of some sort. I would think that theaters doing these cool like giveaways doing and and some of the theaters do that great theater managers do that. And also beyond that, doing Q and A's with filmmakers, either real or virtual, you know in person or virtual, and then just having great movies in your theater, especially on the independent side curating for us, what are the best foreign language films or independent films that are out there. Alexander Hanimyan 11:49 As far as the future of movie distribution goes, all three of our guests tend to think we're headed back to a market dominated by theatrical releases, and that the hybrid model will mostly get left behind with COVID-19. Nick Baldwin 12:03 Tom says there's still an attitude toward big screen movies that it separates certain movies from the REST based on importance and whether they deserve to be watched by a theater audience. For him, movies might only need one to two weeks of exclusivity in the theaters before hitting streaming platforms. Paul echoes Tom's thoughts saying having a movie in a theater makes it more desirable to the audience. Alexander Hanimyan 12:27 Damon says from a consumer point of view, a theatrical release followed by the movies hitting streaming platforms 30 to 60 days later, we'll give movie goers a chance to pick and choose what they want to see. In other words, they can get the full theater experience for their most anticipated movies. And they can wait a couple of months for the movies, they really aren't in a rush to see and save some money. Nick Baldwin 12:52 But having said all that, things can change and consumers are ultimately going to be the ones who dictate the future of movie distribution. Paul Dergarabedian 13:01 I think it's more about the the consumer kind of showing what they want. The most powerful people in Hollywood are the consumer, not the executives not the theater owners. It's the consumer the the movie fan or the the fan of entertainment. We're in the infancy of this really. This you could start the clock right now. As for the technology, and the way that and the content are going to meld together in ways we haven't even imagined yet. Nick Baldwin 13:35 So Alex, have you been back to the theater since COVID? Alexander Hanimyan 13:38 Yeah, I've been a couple times actually. I went to go see Eternals and Shang Qi Nick Baldwin 13:45 which was your favorite of the two? Alexander Hanimyan 13:47 Um, if I'm being honest, I think it was Shang Qi. Nick Baldwin 13:51 How come? Alexander Hanimyan 13:52 I just think it was such a different a type of Marvel movie because we've never they've never gone down that path before was so focused on like superheroes and powers whereas this one there was a little more to it. How about you? Have you gone back to the movies since then? Nick Baldwin 14:10 I have I've seen those movies. I've seen Venom I saw Ghostbusters recently. Shang G I really liked dune I found super confusing. It felt like a good movie, but I just didn't know what was going on. So I don't know if I was able to appreciate it as much as other people did. I guess as we're in this post COVID era or getting towards that point anyways. Do you enjoy going back to the theaters? Do you like watching movies in that setting? Or would you prefer streaming at home? Alexander Hanimyan 14:46 No, I would most definitely love to continue going back to the movies. There's something about the sound the screen, and I think it was brought up on the podcast a couple of times the popcorn is delicious. Nick Baldwin 14:59 True and And Paul like the beard as well. So I mean, and you can't complain too much about that, I would think. Alexander Hanimyan 15:05 No, no you cannot. Nick Baldwin 15:07 Any movie coming up in the next couple of months that you're excited to see the new Spider Alexander Hanimyan 15:13 Man, I am a huge Marvel geek. I've watched every single movie and I cannot wait for Spider Man. Nick Baldwin 15:23 Me too. I I'm intrigued to see whether or not we'll see more than one Spider Man I have a feeling we will but I guess to be determined Top Gun to should be a lot of fun as well. And and I guess as far as like theatres versus streaming services. I also really enjoy going to the theaters. I just think it's a you make watching a movie into an outing. I like that. And as you said, I like the popcorn as well. But I will say the ease of streaming movies at home you just pull out your laptop, your Chromecast to your TV, whatever the case is, you can watch so many different movies just at the click of a button or two. So I do like the streaming services I think they'll continue to you know give give theaters a run for their money as we get further into the 2020s but in the end I also still really love going to the movies. Clip 16:20 That's all folks! Afua Mfodwo 16:38 This episode of unraveled was produced by Alex Hanimyan and Nick Baldwin. Our associate producer is Talha Hashmani and our executive producer is Elena De Luigi. Special thanks to John Powers for composing our theme music, and Ben Shelley for creating our podcast artwork. Our professor is Amanda Cupido and special thanks to Lindsay Hanna and Angela Glover. - 1 - 00Transcribed by https://otter.ai