Dania_Ali_Final Cut Sat, 4/10 10:46PM 24:56 SUMMARY KEYWORDS mom, speaks, grew, gave, nanny, mother, urdu, women, daughters, dad, life, people, sisters, boys, pakistan, girls, siblings, born, living, told SPEAKERS Saulat Siddique (grandma), Dania Ali, Rahma Ali (sister), Sadia Tahir (mom) Dania Ali 00:07 My name is Dania and I'm one of the women in my family who have chosen a path that is commonly taken. I grew up in a home where I was reminded constantly that nothing was unattainable. The concept of limitations was so foreign to me my two sisters because, well, frankly, we grew up with parents who placed immense value in creativity, hardwork, ambition, and most of all independence. I was told I could be anything that I wanted an astronaut, an artist and engineer and entrepreneur, and there's no boundary placed on anything but one notion, whatever path you chose in life, one thing was fixed in certain. There was no compromise when it came to being authentic, truthful and kind. I thought that this was how the worlds functioned for all humans, regardless of their gender. That was up until I had my first direct experience with the patriarchy. I quickly became accustomed to the patriarchal notions that are so deeply ingrained into the South Asian culture that I was born into. I was 13 years old, and we were having dinner at home with some family friends. We've known them for years now. But this dinner was a little different. It was the first time I was allowed to come sit at the adult table. I always thought that I was too mature for the kids my age and never fully resonated with them. I was also a nosy child at times and was more interested in knowing the almost forbidden information that was spoken about mongst the elders. So you can imagine how boastfully I sat down in the seat next to my mom, ready to contribute my big girl thoughts out loud for once I first I noticed that it was the men who were arguing over politics and women who are listening, but were slightly distracted, trying to make sure the kids were settled. Then our family friend turned to me and said, so what are your plans for the future? I was 13. And so the only real plans I had were to go swimming with my friends The next day, in an effort to conceal my Panic of not knowing what the right answer was. I said, I'm not sure what I want to do. But I do want to go to university somewhere outside of Qatar, maybe Toronto. I saw his smile drop. And his eyes locked into mine sternly, as he leaned over and said, No, that's not what good girls in our family do. We don't let our daughters out of the country to study. I was always told to respect my elders. And that also meant not speaking backwardly I tried to hold myself back. But even at 13, I knew I had to defend my future for men like that. So I did. That was also when I was first given the label of being too out there too outspoken, and was constantly told that as a person who was just too sensitive of Western social ideas that I would never be taken seriously in any context. I'm now 22 years old, and these same labels persist. But that has never stopped me from continuing to fight. People like that family friend, who think it's okay to limit how far women can go. No one tells you though, how tiring it can get to fight for a cause. Where you often feel like it's just you fighting. It can be a lonely place, but I've always had someone holding my hand sitting next to me, my mom. Sadia Tahir (mom) 03:25 No, I'm very relaxed now because we're in front of me. Dania Ali 03:32 The reason why I'm persistent with my intersectional feminism is because even that first time that I was labeled as being too much, it was my mom who's sitting next to me and reminded me that life should be lived without any limits to your hopes and dreams. She fought back for me in that moment, and she's been fighting back her whole life, as her mother did for her. It's no coincidence that I am who I am today, as I am a byproduct of the brave, difficult, headstrong and often lonely decisions that have been taken by the women who came before me. The first of these women Why have joined on this path that is commonly untaken who I want to introduce you to is my mom. Sadia Tahir (mom) 04:17 In Pakistan, the girls are not treated. Dania Ali 04:21 I grew up listening to my mom's ideas of the female identity and integrity a lot. I was told to never sacrifice or compromise on who I was and wanted to be or how I saw the world. Sadia Tahir (mom) 04:33 If you think you are doing the right thing. You are not doing anything wrong. You should be clean with that. Do not change your ideas up their fair luck up neighbors or yard your ideology because always this is a learning is a journey. birches ag job up change with a dog but always go for the progress of napco nature but laico Dania Ali 04:56 my mom grew up in Lahore, Pakistan. She was one of eight To be born into a large drink family, she had the same childhood as any other middle class family living in the city. That was up until she unexpectedly experienced trauma at the age of 10. So, Sadia Tahir (mom) 05:13 I always recall myself, so there is a big house where we were living in my mom and dad. It was quite big house. And I remember the big big rooms and everything I always, I always remember, he's a smiling face, and giving money to me. And sitting with me and eating like that I have only just these memories in my mind, regarding my dad, but I can remember the some bitterness like when he died. I remember. I was only 10 years old. Actually, we all were living we I have seven siblings. We were living in Lahore with my mom in a house. And suddenly, my dad died. I remember all the things when he died, how he died. And my mom was very upset at that time she was crying. She was helpless looking very helpless. And then I remember my Dania Ali 06:06 we've never really spoken about the role her dad played in her life. In fact, this was the first time she explained to me how his financial responsibilities went that they didn't get much time to bond. Sadia Tahir (mom) 06:17 I just remember, the role of my dad in my life is not like I have seen in my children, their dad, you know, it was not no closeness. So I don't remember any interaction with me with my dad. I always remember my mother. She had been studying and she was supporting me. Dania Ali 06:36 She had told me growing up about some of the struggles that took place after her dad passed away. But we had never spoken about her individual hardships is one of the oldest daughters in the family. Because her dad was the main working member. Once he passed, her family struggled financially. Whilst in the eighth grade, she started providing extra tuitions to bring in an income for her and her siblings. Sadia Tahir (mom) 06:59 So I started earning very in a very young age also. And then I started teaching 15 children 16 like I used to when I started after my bachelor, my job. I used to come back and I used to give tuitions many children in my house full full room. So I worked very hard in this way. You know, I'm not saying only me the most, my eldest sister, my brother, who is who is older than only one year to me, and myself three people, we were running the house. And you know, so I, when I see my mom said, I don't have money. So at my very young age, I started supporting her and I got very, can you imagine I never counted the money. Well, whatever I just earned, I just gave all together to my mum. And she was really surprised yet. I remember she used to ask me, you don't need anything, you don't need money. And I said no. Dania Ali 07:54 Why? What makes what is making you feel really emotional. Sadia Tahir (mom) 07:59 Because I just remember the day is you know, if I compare nowadays, that is I am blessed now. My mother had many difficulties, you know, she faced a lot of difficulties. His life, her life was very challenging for her. She had eight siblings without husband and she started earning and then we started we had very tough life. Dania Ali 08:26 It never occurred to me to see my mom as a human being that she was before she was my mom. I never seen her cry when speaking about her life. Multiple studies that have been done about trauma suggest that those who have experienced it tend to have foggier memories of particular childhood events. As a survivor, I have been of no exception to those medical phenomena. And what I've learned that my experience is that one of the ways that you can regain your agency is through validation. I have been lucky enough to have found a support system that has helped with my healing. But my mom wasn't born with that privilege. The first woman that I got my own ideas of feminism from is my nanny, my grandma, ever since I could remember she was a person who was quiet, a little stern and generally kept to herself. As a child. I wasn't very close to her and I would only see her on an occasional visit to Pakistan. So almost everything that I do know about her comes from those around her. Sadia Tahir (mom) 09:31 But if if I talk about who is the role model, so definitely my mum, you know, because I saw her changing. Like she was totally housewife. My dad never gave her importance like that. I just saw her cooking in the kitchen doing household work, working for us teaching us she was the teacher for us everything like this and my dad died. I saw her more courageous you know, because she went out she started working. She was taking care of For us, she was giving us what she could add that time. Dania Ali 10:03 Growing up, I would see my mom's eyes soften and fill with admiration every single time that she speaks about how supportive loving, independent and firm that she is. I often have a difficult time being soft as women are usually expected to either be headstrong or emotionally driven. My Noni has shown me that you can be both and more. She grew up in Allahabad, India as one of four siblings. At the time the British colonial rule was coming to an end in the region, but those who call my salon left in such a hurry, and never looked back at the mess that they made in the process. Amongst the other devastating effects the colonial rule had, one of the most harmful ones was creating divisions amongst people who came from different ethnic and religious backgrounds. To put it simply, eventually, a bloody partition took place where the majority of Muslims decided that they needed to separate from the majority Hindu population in India. That is when Pakistan was created. The political rife between the two countries following this has had dire effects on populations in both regions. It was people like my Nani, a Muslim woman who eventually moved to Pakistan who had to face the brunt of this aftermath. She explains to me that still things didn't seem as bad back then when the new Islamic State was born as they do now. Saulat Siddique (grandma) 11:31 [Speaks in Urdu] Dania Ali 11:41 Her father passed away when she was in her early teens. She says her mother then took on a similar role as she did when she first became a widowed single woman raising eight kids by herself. Saulat Siddique (grandma) 11:53 Literally. My first year RTG asked about a video mini somebody. Dania Ali 12:00 On the surface, it may seem as though my mom and my nanny are women who speak very matter of factly about their trauma of losing their fathers at such a young age. I guess it seems that way to me, because I can't fathom the idea of losing a parent, and then not having much time to grieve because you now have mouths to feed and school fees to fill out all by yourself. Studies have shown that when a person is exposed to a traumatic event, they will often suppress the memory of it. It's our body's way of coping and surviving as reliving, it can make it difficult to actually, while live. My nanny is a person who has been dealt tough cards in life, there's no silver lining to the experience of losing a parent or a husband. But he or she is surviving and living. Anytime that I feel I'm lost or alone. And the decisions that I make as a woman, I often think of her and of my mom. And I'm not alone at all. Sadia Tahir (mom) 13:09 You know, I had always fear of losing someone when I lost my dad. So I always got close to my mother. Because I used to dream if something happened with my mother, we have even coffee date eight siblings six or seven siblings. At that time, if my mother would be not educated, we will be not standing here, you know. And at that time, my mom always used to say I brought up in these words. My daughter's should do the graduation, I went through very hard times. So I don't want them. I want them to be you know, independent, because I saw so many hardship doing myself and my mother. So I wanted my two daughters to be independent. You know, in every you know, era of life. Dania Ali 13:54 My mom pursued a bachelor degree in psychology in journalism. She wanted to study further and get a Master's as well, but our financial situation didn't support her at the time. Instead, my nanny encouraged her to teach as she noticed that she really enjoyed it. My mom has now been teaching for over 20 years and is currently the principal at an all girls private school and got there, which is not a position commonly given to immigrants, let alone women of color. She's taught me everything that my nanny has taught her Rahma Ali (sister) 14:25 as far as me that she was like a woman because me personally, I don't think I've seen that many women working in such a, like the higher ranking and the working environment. And so it inspired me that she was and it showed me that it is possible. Just because like your gender doesn't fully define where like your potential. Dania Ali 14:54 That's one of my little sisters rahama she's 13 and normally doesn't speak to me. Because I'm just not that cool for her. But upon asking her What is the biggest thing she admires about our mom, I realized that it was mine till my nanny tells me how important it was for her mother to push her to get a degree and an education. She says she wouldn't have been able to provide for her family as a single mother otherwise, and that's why she in turn pushed her daughters to do the same. In case they also had to face bad times. Saulat Siddique (grandma) 15:25 [Speaks in Urdu] Dania Ali 15:32 But it wasn't easy for either of them to get their degrees living in a culture where sons were valued more than daughters. My nania explains that males in the family were given more importance than the females, which also affected the level of education, they got Saulat Siddique (grandma) 15:57 [Speaks in Urdu] Sadia Tahir (mom) 16:09 So everyone I saw appreciating these boys. And this thing was developing me in my heart, you know why boys, my boys, you know, why not us. But I saw a lot of attention has been given to them. If we compare, but my mom I saw her, she, although she had only two boys and six girls, but she never gave a lot of attention to boys. She always treated us equally in my house. My my mother, always, I always told my brothers that you have to work equally as your sisters are doing. There was nothing like that. But this is in our cultures. Yes, this is it. These things started developing in me then by then I started proof myself that although in this, you know, very limited resources, Dania Ali 16:56 what can I do? We've spoken at length about misogyny and how it functions in boxing and culture. But she's never told me about this hatred that she developed for men. Sadia Tahir (mom) 17:05 It's like not hatred. But I never I never impressed by male gender, you know, never. Dania Ali 17:13 I also have an internalized disinterest in the real gender, which started to develop very quickly into my early teen years. Some of it came from the toxic masculinity I constantly saw growing up, but most of it comes from fear. I now understand why my mom is so comfortable with calling out the toxicity in a society where it's not encouraged to do so. Because she's been doing it for so long. Sadia Tahir (mom) 17:48 I was pregnant and I was extremely happy that was very different, you know, emotions, which you can not put in words, you know, it was entirely different. I had 10 hours labor, very long labor. And then it is this is effect, you know, I went to God and I came back. It was like that very difficult delivery. So Alhamdulillah when I delivered my all attention, you know, around tires and mine, my daughter, and it was cannot, you know, cannot express my feeling in words. It was totally different than we started. Whenever we talk, we never talk about ourselves. We talk about our daughter, you know, and that was Dania Ali 18:32 my mom's telling me about how she felt when she found out she was pregnant with me. She birth two more daughters, one shortly after, and another nine years later. One question that I always thought of, but never asked her was if she felt like she missed out on not having a son. Not because she ever wished for one or the other. But because I know, she had been told previously that it was unfortunate that she didn't have one. This is the first time that I actually asked her about it. And the answer and God took me by surprise. Sadia Tahir (mom) 19:01 I never even prayed to God because I know in our tradition, if someone got pregnant, they have this. Oh, give me some give me some pray. I always say what is better meant for me? does Allah give me okay? I never say boys and girls. And from inside there is something that I loved girls. I love girls like so that's why I always when I think and sit down that that's where Allah gave me girls, because maybe I would be not a good mother. If I had a boy. Dania Ali 19:28 After much reflection, I asked all the woman in my life what the best piece of advice was that their mother gave them or that they would give to their daughters? Sadia Tahir (mom) 19:36 Nicole, I'm telling you, it's very important to not to change yourself. Whatever you are, I am okay. If something happened in front of me wrong. I will say this is wrong. I will not stop myself. Although I know there are 10 people who will say no, it is not like this. It is not like that. They will impose the things but I will not listen. Maybe maybe even Dania Ali 19:58 the importance of education of fineness of hard work and perseverance has always been emphasized by my mom. But the one thing I'd forgotten about was the ability to stand up for yourself even if no one else will Sadia Tahir (mom) 20:10 [Speaks in urdu] even when I will advise the girls who are the guys who are getting married sometime in our Pakistani culture, they they impose that things you know, they said whatever we do, and you have to do that you are not allowed to do this. You are not allowed to do this. And but it's very hard to convince the people according to your ideology, sometime I just quit and I kept quiet because I did not want to waste my energy on people who really doesn't want to change. Dania Ali 20:46 My nanny tells me something that I too have heard growing up, she says that her mother gave her the advice of compromising where you can in America or elsewhere, and where you can't to just leave and come back home. Saulat Siddique (grandma) 21:08 [Speaks in Urdu] Dania Ali 21:11 Their advice has always been of great importance to me, but I not considered how important it was to listen to someone younger, who lives in a world where the patriarchy still affects them to a different degree. Rahma Ali (sister) 21:22 Having sisters was or for me, at least having sisters is what formed ideas on feminism and a lot of things. And I think by having sisters, it gave me more of an advantage to be more open minded. Dania Ali 21:43 We weren't very close growing up because of the nine year age gap between us. But Rama has always been someone who in her truly Oh form has firmly stood her ground on any matter. I've seen this in her as early as when she was five years old. And she declared that she was only going to take her pink Tinkerbell back to school or was plainly not going to go. And I've also seen it in her now as we've grown closer in the way that she persistently defies anyone who says something that doesn't sit well with her. Because of the pandemic, I haven't been able to go home. So for the past almost two years, I have only virtually gotten to know her over the phone. But it has been nothing short of a privilege to see the young woman that she's become. I may be a little biased, but she truly is one of the only 13 year olds I know who has the ability to understand the importance of sisterhood as a core feminist value. In our conversation, I asked her to tell me one thing that we could be doing differently and how we live within the box and the culture. The answer went well beyond her gears and is the same one I would say today. Rahma Ali (sister) 22:51 I think phrases like boys will be boys are just ridiculous. It's normalizing boys behaviors. And instead of saying boys will be boys, we can teach them how to just be normal Pete and respectful people. Because I think a lot of behave, a lot of like behavior of men is just disregarded because they are males. And I think it's just so wrong because it gives them a sense of entitlement, that they have a right to whatever they want, regardless of the situation like it's just enabling for them to do whatever they want and not be held accountable for their actions. And I think as like society needs to hold them accountable. Dania Ali 23:51 If I'm being honest, I don't really know what I was expecting to find. When I started these conversations with the most strong and independent women in my family. I didn't expect to find so many parallels between the thoughts and ideologies that have been passed down from one generation to another. I didn't expect to find healing. I didn't expect to feel hopeful about the future, especially now. Or it seems like there's a new way that the patriarchy rears its ugly head every day. But most of all, I didn't expect to find the path and taken that I've chosen to go on to have been mapped out and designed even before I was born. Something as simple as a conversation reminded me that As humans, we hold on to hope for change for a reason. I now stand on this path commonly untaken where my mom and my nanny have walked and I do what they did. I look forward and continue to fight because I know that will be my sister who comes in after me and I want this role to be full of hope and opportunity.