0:11 All too often, life just doesn't turn out the way you expect it to. What happens then? How does one learn to not only overcome, but embrace the unforeseen trials and tribulations of life and establish some sort of a new normal? Is it even possible to turn your life around and pursue something entirely different? Something you may have never expected to in the first place? These are just some of the questions that we attempt to answer in today's podcast, which includes four unique stories. I'm your host, Felix Wong, and this is Unforeseen Trials. 0:48 We'll open with a story that explores the pressures of quitting the music industry, followed by one about the experience of burnouts as a healthcare support worker. After that will be our most intense story, which documents a near death experience. Lastly, we'll look into ASMR, which has become a coping mechanism for people with lasting anxiety. Let's begin by hearing about trumpet player Uj Almaden and his journey pursuing a career in the precarious industry of professional classical music. Ujjawal Madan has been playing the trumpet for nearly six years. Since he was enrolled at Earl Haig secondary school, he has had the dream of becoming a professional trumpet player. 1:41 When I was in grade 12, I was deciding what career I wanted to pursue and I knew I wanted to be a professional musician. I was really inspired by my teacher Andrew at the time and he was the principal of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and I worked very, very hard in my grade 12 year. In the end, it ended up working out I got into the Juilliard School in New York. And although I did not attend, I did not end up attending the school. For me, that was a big achievement and assign that perhaps I can make it as a professional musician, 2:11 Ujjawal teacher Andrew McCandless served almost as a father figure to him throughout his four year degree at the clinical school. Although he was one of the youngest students, when he first enrolled at the post secondary institution, he excelled at first, comfortably finding his place among his fellow musicians. 2:28 So when I entered the Glen gold school, I was very excited. It was a, it was the perfect place for me. That's how I felt at the time, the environment, the people, my teacher, I was so excited, and I was very energized and looking forward to being in this field. And that, you know, my first year was a bit tough, but it ended up getting better. My second year was, I had adjusted to the school and adjusted to what was going on. And I had a better grip on things and I really excelled. And my teacher had said so as well. Entering third and fourth year, that was a bit more difficult. I had, I had injuries that came up and you know, the reality starts to sink in that even though I was progressing at a rate that I was happy with. It just was not fast enough and that was really hard to bear and a tough reality to deal with. 3:22 Going into his final year, Ujjawal was already uncertain about his prospects in the industry. But still, his peers and his mentor kept encouraging him, especially towards his final year. However, at this point, he began to struggle both physically with his playing and psychologically and emotionally with what he wants to do in the future. 3:42 My fourth year was extremely difficult. I've had a lot of anxiety and was going through a bit of a depression and the reality of what awaited me after I was done school, it was starting to sink in. Which was that although I play the trumpet really well, I don't have any other marketable skills. And quite frankly, I just was not at the level I needed to be to win a professional position. It was then that I start to consider perhaps other options, including arts administration, fundraising, and I was encouraged to seek out help from some people at some people at my school and at the Royal Conservatory of Music. In the end, I decided that that would perhaps be the best choice for me going forward after I was done school. 4:31 Now that Ujjawal has graduated from the Glenn Gould school. He has spent some time volunteering at the fundraising department at the Royal Conservatory of Music. As an unpaid intern. He's found himself doing a lot of grunt work, such as filing and taking calls. I had the opportunity recently to speak to Albert Chan, who performed alongside Ujjawal a few years ago with Toronto Symphony Youth Orchestra. Here's Albert's impression of the position that Ujjawal finds himself in right now. He didn't seem to be too optimistic on the outlook. Maybe it's because he just started this new job. But from my perspective, I believe that he's coming up from maybe a dark horde, maybe a depression, depressive stance from his previous career as a musician and going into this new industry, that outlook seems to be quite uncertain. 5:24 So when he was conveying his career path to me, I seem to be quite skeptical. I don't know much about the fundraising industry. But all I would say is just that he should continue working hard towards his goal and just try his hardest. 5:42 it was a difficult decision for Ujjawal to switch career paths from music performance to fundraising. Ultimately, the decision came down to multiple factors, including injuries to his lips and lungs, the changing I was playing, I'm sure, and his overall disillusionment with the music industry. There were also issues regarding salary. As a professional musician, you are only paid on the contract basis, if you happen to be employed in the first place. And as such, fundraising seems to be a much steadier source of income in both the short and long run. However, his first experience in the industry hasn't gone exactly as he's expected. 6:21 It's been a mixed experience. It's a, it's a real pleasure to be fundraising for the institution that I've had such a long history with, including not just my undergraduate education, but my piano exams and piano training and my other musical education. Unfortunately, four or five months into the position, I've realized that perhaps this is not meant for me is not something I can see myself doing long term and I just don't see myself pursuing arts administration going forward. I'm weighing my options right now for what I want to be doing. And it's been a bit tough, leaving music behind and, you know, perhaps, looking at other things. I'm considering going back to university and I think it's been a bit difficult for my family as well. But, you know, I think you you really don't know the reality of things until you try them and I, I'm still grateful for having that opportunity to try to be a musician and try arts administration. 7:29 Although fundraising and arts administration may not be the right path for Ujjawal. Moving forward, he's still open to other options, such as returning to school to pursue another degree, perhaps in engineering, or finance. As a foreign professional musician, myself, having attended Humber College's jazz program on full scholarship for a year, I can most definitely relate to the challenges Ujjawal is currently facing. After dropping out of Humber College, it took me a year to decide what I wanted to do with my life. I tried different things such as real estate and working on a cruise ship, but ultimately decided to return to school and pursue journalism. It's a choice I don't regret making. And I'm sure udraw will be able to carve out the right path for himself in the coming years, just as I was able to do for myself. Our next story explores a similar idea, but in this case, a young man follows in his father's footsteps, only to be left feeling uncertain about the choices he has made. 8:27 It's funny because even in life, like when you get something that has such a really, really low low, it's bound to have such a really, really high like it says it just works out like with everything like that. 8:45 {cafeterie noise} Doing the dishes. 8:53 Today 8:55 it's early morning at a house in alliston. Ontario, and people are cleaning up after breakfast. People with mental and physical disabilities are participating in a day program, one that helps them socialize with others and perform everyday tasks. Developmental support workers are there to help them cook, do arts and crafts, exercise, and take them on trips to places like the museum or a park. For Andrew Fetchiolo becoming a support worker was the dream. 9:25 My first experience with developmental services came at a very young age, I would say. My father has been in the field for a very, very long time and I guess if I were to backtrack a long time ago, it would be when I was actually 10 years old. 9:42 Andrews father Vito has been in the developmental services sector for over 30 years, and is the executive director of the community living organization in Alliston. One that supports people living with disabilities. Drawing inspiration from his father Andrew first got into the industry at 16 years old when he started doing respite work. Wthin this role Andrew provided at home support for a person with disabilities for a few hours each week, 10:04 when I was like, Hey, this is what I want to do. I had actually worked with an individual who, for about 10 years had not said a word to his to his whole family, he was completely nonverbal, didn't speak. It took me about six months, and he was talking with his family, completing full sentences, laughing do all showing basically showing emotion and like that made me feel so good. That was where the love really, really started. 10:33 After this experience, Andrew became more invested in the field, he worked as a summer student at a community living organization where he supported several people with vastly different diagnoses. When Andrew got accepted to Ryerson University in Toronto during the summer of 2014, he then applied for a full time support worker position at an organization just outside the city. 10:52 During my interview, interviewing process, I did let them know that where my strengths were. Seeing as I was very young, I was able, I was strong, I was willing to kind of put myself out there, and I wanted to, you know, move up in the industry in the world and the company in general. So you know, if they see someone like me, someone who's ready to get right down to it, their initial thought was, let's put them in the hardest area. hardest part of this, this company. 11:21 Andrew got placed in one of the organization's most behaviorally difficult homes. Of those who live there. Their diagnoses range from being nonverbal to having autism or schizophrenia. Many of them have more than one diagnosis. A typical workday for Andrew begins at 9am. He arrives at the house and meets with the overnight staff to see how the night went. Then Andrew will meet with his team during which he'll be assigned to the person that he's supporting for that day. Depending on who he supports. Andrews responsibilities will vary. Usually he'll accompany his person to day program, perhaps help them water the plants, do arts and crafts, and meet with other individuals. During his shift. He's also required to make lunch and dinner, 12:00 People who need additional care, they usually follow very, very, very, very specific, drawn out plans of the day that have been in place for years and years and years. That's where most people thrive the most. But one thing during your day goes goes wrong, if you're in traffic for too much too long for 15 minutes longer than there used to, you know, there's trouble. 12:26 By trouble Andrew means that the person will get angry or agitated and express a behavior. Typically, most people will throw a tantrum, but in extreme cases, they can become physically aggressive. In an instant Andrew's day can go from good to horrible, keeping him constantly on edge. 12:42 Definitely a lot, a lot of anxiety going into work, especially when you know times were tough. It was, you know, don't get me wrong. when times were tough, it was extremely rewarding to kind of get through that. But at the same time, it was like oh my god, you know, I have another day of work. There's like, four or five more days of work. Like how am I going to get through that every single day you go to work and you're like, hey, I'm essentially having a panic attack right now you know what I mean? That can get mentally exhausting, emotionally exhausting. 13:11 After a year and a half of working a person in Andrews home began experiencing crisis after crisis for weeks on end, causing Andrews anxiety to worsen. 13:20 I know I remember one time, he was upstairs and he has this this thing we're listening to music, it really calms him down. But this specific day, something had happened. We just heard this smash. We went upstairs, the entire room was trashed. We had to kind of go and lock ourselves in the in the staff room, making sure everyone else is safe and he just went and destroyed everything the entire house. The entire kitchen was just covered in his own blood. It is like kind of scar like scarring to see someone hit his head off a door for like 30 seconds straight that I found that I actually felt like I was in a horror movie. 13:58 It was then that Andrew began to question whether this career was the right path for him. 14:03 So it's like, at that point for me, it was just like, wow, this is not essentially what I signed up for. I mean, I did it to help people I did it to you know, aid in in people's progress. But when you go to work every single day, and it's almost just like, whatever you do is not progressing. It's just escalating or going downwards. It becomes a thing where you're like, Okay, this is this for me, like, do I really love this? Is there is this is this what I'm supposed to do? 14:36 One day during this extended crisis period, Andrew walked up to his manager at the end of his shift, and without giving it a moment's thought he quit. 14:44 It wasn't just the fear, though, and the aggression and that really told me to stop as well. I mean, you know, I consider myself to be a kind and loving person. I consider myself a patient person, but you know, I got to the point where I felt like I wasn't doing a good job anymore. You know, I wasn't treating the people that I was working for originally with the amount of respect that I should have been. I didn't think I would burn out this quickly. I mean, honestly, I really didn't. 15:16 Someone who understands the stress of the job well as Tory McClellan, who has worked as a senior support worker for eight years, she's actually employed at the organization that Andrew's dad manages. I told her about Andrew situation, how he felt like he had given up, but she saw it completely different. 15:32 I respect people like that, if you can admit that, this isn't for me, and I'm not doing what I should be doing in order to give these people the best support that they need. Then yeah, it's time to go and that's not a bad thing. It's important to know when you need to take a step back, in your job in life and in everything. And it's good to be able to admit that because again, a lot of people don't because they're scared, they're scared of failing. I don't think that's failing at all. I think that's being very successful and knowing who you are. 16:02 Andrew and Tory are just a few of many support workers who know the strain of the job well. Burnout is likely in any health care profession, but especially within the developmental services sector. The organizations that Andrew and Tory work at are experiencing a staffing shortage, meaning workers are being stretched thin. The reality is many end up leaving to pursue other careers. 16:22 What I can say though, is I'm way happier now. Which is great. It took a while but I was able to just take a moment, understand where I where I am at life accept it and, you know, do things that I enjoy. 16:37 After leaving his job, Andrew took some time to reevaluate his life and the career he wanted. He's currently finishing up his last semester in Ryerson University's Business Technology Program. As for what he'll do after he says he's not certain, maybe he'll travel before settling down. Either way, he's happily embracing the unknown. 17:01 Joining me now is the reporter of that piece. Jennifer La Grassa. Jennifer, thanks for being here. 17:06 Thanks for having me. 17:08 Although Andrew may have had his initial reservations about quitting the profession, he always saw himself in a longtime support worker. Tory, surprisingly said that she found it quite admirable to embrace one's feelings and let go of the profession. But what happens if you don't have anything else to fall back on? Was that a predicament that Andrew may have been grappling wiith at the time? 17:29 Yeah, that's a great question. I think for Andrew, he was also in school full time as he was doing support work. So for him, he always knew that he had something to fall back on and pursue this career, that was definitely something that he saw long term. So it wasn't something he was planning on leaving. But it was a question that I asked him because, you know, within the field, a lot of the workers are women who are immigrants and from a visible minority. So for them, they come to Canada and a support worker maybe the best job that they have. And they also like, just mainly for the fact that they have experienced with that line of work back home. So for them, they might already have families and might not have the resources to go back to school or to just up and quit. And his advice was just that, you know, there's always other options, whether that's, you know, taking some time for yourself, taking a leave of absence, maybe even just switching roles within the organization, because that's always possible as well. And just, I think in general, like having that support network and that community to talk to someone. So yeah, I think there's there's just always other options available other than quitting. 18:37 Great, thanks for sharing with me, Jennifer. Now let's take a listen to Hannah Bostrom piece about a man's life they got completely turned around after suffering from a catastrophic brain injury. 19:01 They went out with a couple friends and we were boarding over to another friend's house and I was in the back of the line of three. I don't remember any of this but apparently someone said car and I was over in front of him and the van didn't break. Apparently saw me didn't break and hit me from behind and I went flying 48 feet, cracked my skull. The ambulance came and they took me to the hospital in Peterborough where for a couple hours, they realized they weren't gonna be able to treat me. So an Orange Air ambulance flew me in there, flying me to Toronto. And then nowhere had room for me so they're gonna have to send me to Detroit, but the air ambulance said that I wasn't gonna survive the trip. So, they made room for me and St. Mike's in Toronto. 19:57 And when he finally arrived at St. Mike's it was some seven hours between his injury and when he arrived. I think was eight hours before the surgery. It was it was an absolute nightmare. I was allowed to go in with him. And he was unconscious, of course, and they were inflicting all this pain on him, you know that they could to try to see get a response out of them. So you're standing there and watching them do this. Meanwhile, I'm trying to talk to him and say, I'm here, you know, and you're going to be okay and didn't know if he could hear me or not. And then they took him away for the for the surgery. And he ended up being at 48 days in ICU, and battled not just the brain injury, but he got severe pneumonia. And I really felt at some point it was going to be the pneumonia that was going to kill him. When I finally got to see him after the surgery, it was just awful. You know, his head was all bandaged up, he was bruised. I mean, he had a catastrophic brain injury. Then when they called us into a meeting, they basically said that he either wasn't going to make it and that if he did make it, chances are he wouldn't be able to, to cope, you know. He'd be hospitalized to institutionalized or something like that. 21:12 But that lasted a whole month and a half, where I was in the chemical induced coma. Well, I guess I woke up several times and kept asking the same questions. And then every now and again, I just kind of like, look over curiously at mom and ask, why am I here? And then she would tell me the whole story apparently several times. And I just remember December 1, because that's when they finally took me out of ICU and put me in the ward and some doctors and nurses and would come in the morning and ask several questions. And one of the questions is still what date it is, and our way around, that was put a calendar up on the wall. And as you exit out what day it was so. 21:53 You cheated, I guess. I cheated the system a bit. He needed, you know, like a feeding tube in his stomach and all that sort of stuff. So for me, it was so hard, he had to have a trach put in. So almost every day that I was going to the hospital, they were saying that we need to do a trach, we need to do this, we need to put a shunt in, we need to. So I had to keep signing for them put more and more tubes and things in. 22:16 I had a lot of dreams when I was in a coma and in all my dreams, I was lying down. And I was held down by cords of some sort and that would have been all the tubes going into in the needles. I had so many dreams where I was on a cruise ship. It was like I was on the Titanic, but I was down in like a hospital ward. And the lights went out and they just tell me the ships going down and you're going to die. And I just had countless dreams where I've just lying on different ships in different areas and just knowing I was gonna die, and I had nothing to do and just kind of waiting for the water to come. So I'm not really big on going on cruises now. 22:58 So I do things in the early periods when I would sing little songs that I'd made up for him when he was when he was a baby and I thought well, they worked then he was really happy baby when I sang to him. You're my baby. Yes, you are. You're my bright and shining star. I love you the way you are. As you work through, you know your own fear and everything you had to feel that we were doing something something constructive. You know, you couldn't just sit there and be a witness to this as Garrett's gonna come back and thank you for all of this. And they looked at me in total disbelief and I said he will he'll be back because they said to me that very seldom anybody went back to to see how they were doing. I said, Garret will come back and he did. You're my baby. Yes, you are. 23:51 I started off initially in a wheelchair. But because my right arm was so bad, I just end up going in circles, so it was a bit of a struggle. So as I continue to get better and better I'd started walking with a person on each side and he helped me then one person and then the walker cane, and then just holding the railings. I started walking on my own. And I kept pushing, kept pushing and kept what my mom to take me out on walks. I kept getting faster and faster and I started leaving her behind and then I started running again. And before a year was out I ran a 10 k race in 41 minutes after it was incredible, possibly not being able to walk again. So So 24:38 and I stood there in the parking lot when he was coming back from the tank a race and I'm sobbing and sobbing and everything because I was just I couldn't believe that he was able to do it. So everyone I think was looking at me kind of strange. Watching my son come across the finish line and I've just dissolved in tears because it was it was unbelievable when he went from catastrophic to a year later, I'm running a race. Like it's a miracle. We launched heads up Durham. So I was kind of the lead in it, but certainly if Garrett didn't give me permission to share his image of him in the hospital and tell his story, there would never be a heads up Durham. So it's been really well received and I think we've been able to shine a light on what they call an invisible disability because people just don't know enough about brain injury. 25:27 I spoke at the launch and there was important people from the neighborhood there and a few lawyers and someone else from the law firm that represented me said how grateful I was for all the help and how it's probably gonna be a struggle now having five years of nothing on my 25:46 resume 25:46 resume. And then a few days later, the lawyer who represented me, he messaged me and said, we have a position up I think you should apply. And that's now where I work. And it's been three and a half years that I've been working at the firm and do my best to help out for other people that have gone through the same situation I went through. 26:06 I'm just so so grateful that Garrett's doing as well as he is that he's, you know, living the life he deserves. He's, he's though he's a wonderful man. 26:16 Eventually, I'd like to finish my degree. I don't have a specific plan of somewhere I'd like to work. But I'm very happy that the firm that I work at now has allowed me to continue to work there, and I'm hopeful for my future. 26:34 Hannah Bostrom, the reporter of this podcast is with me now. Thanks for being here, Hannah. That was obviously a very emotionally fueled podcast. Given the near death nature of Garrett's situation. Did Garrett talk to you at all about what he had to do mentally to overcome his near death experience? How was he able to deal with the fact that he was so close to not even surviving, let alone being able to engage in strenuous physical activity such as racing once again? 27:01 Yeah, it was a really hard thing to both hear, and obviously for them to talk about. Garrett doesn't remember a whole lot during the whole ordeal, just because, you know, he did had that catastrophic brain injury. It was more his mother that took over that She remembers everything because she was there every single step of the way. She had to keep a diary every single day of his progress, and even the backtracks as well, to give to the lawyers for the lawsuit, so she remembers everything in perfect detail. But since going through all those journals, sometimes she does whenever she's talking at Heads Up Durham, again, that they are just so thankful that he did get through everything, and I can't put it better than they did. It's a miracle that he survived. 27:49 Thanks for sharing that with us, Hannah. Next, let's take a listen to Maddie Kornakis podcast about the genre bending, therapeutic nature nature of ASMR and the artists who made its auditory and chairman's reality. 28:02 It was just really calming. Sometimes when I would try to fall asleep I would, I like have too many thoughts in my head. I just like keep thinking of things. And like before, how I would counteract that was that I would like write whatever I was thinking. I just think I just do most of my thinking at night and I'm like a student also. So just like school deadlines, and I'm like, since I'm an art I'm, like, always need to be like brainstorming of like thinking of things. I'm like, oh I could do this for like, my assignment or like, what if it looked like this? Is need to I mean, just like standard stuff of like, things that I need to do and haven't been done or just like, things that happened in my day. Like why did I do that? You know? My name is Amanda Khan. I'm a student at OCAD University for sculpture and installation. I'm 22 years old. I am an anxious person. I don't have an anxiety but I do get anxious about certain things for sure. So I do I do it all. I like it all I like when I first started I would like listen to them as like audio files. When I would go to sleep I would like put my headphones in and I usually like the whispered ones like with like, whispering right up, like on each side of here. That's how I would go to sleep. I would say ASMR does help me when I'm anxious or just just feeling really stressed out. I'll put ASMR on. 29:52 So ASMR stands for Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. It's described as an experience characterized by a static like or tingling sensation on the skin. However, among the ASMR community, it's also just described as a sense of well being an overwhelming calm, a sense of relaxation, it doesn't necessarily have to be the tingling feeling. But just you feel better, you just feel lighter, you feel happier. So if you've ever had somebody: play with your hair, do your makeup, if you ever had a lice check at school, had the window open when it's raining, and you can hear like the raindrops on the tin roof or on the road, and you just feel good, you just feel nice and relaxed. That's ASMR. 30:47 Hello, 30:48 this is Ashley. ASMR. 30:50 I am an ASMR artist. 30:54 I got into ASMR because I originally was in developmental service work and early childhood education. However, I got really, really sick during my pregnancy and ended up developing cyclic vomiting syndrome. And I had to kind of change my life and adapt to be able to help support my family, I was really depressed and really anxious. And like, I had really known what I wanted to do. Originally with my life, I really wanted to help people and then being confined by a disease where I can't just go and do what I want to do, I can't go to school the way a normal person would, I can't, I can't even go to my mailbox sometimes. So I had to figure out how, 31:37 how to live with this condition, while also being happy and supporting my family and ASMR it helped me get out of my head, it helped me to focus. And then it also helped me redirect my energy into more positive things. So I have recently spoke with some of my subscribers about why they use ASMR or what about ASMR that they like. It was crazy, the response I got was really different from almost everybody that I spoke to. So some people in my my community, they watch it because they have severe pain, and it helps them focus on something else. Other people watch it for anxiety, the one the one guy who watches my stuff, he watches it, or listens to it, I guess while he's driving, to help with like road rage and his anxiety and stuff while he's driving, which is crazy. And it's so neat, just how many individuals and the diverse group of people that get to come together over something that's really positive. When you're sick, and you have a chronic illness, people get sick of it. And so people stopped coming around, or they stopped talking to you. And they go on with their lives. And with ASMR. And with the awesome, strong supportive community, a lot of the people within the community come upon ASMR because they had anxiety, or depression or insomnia or a combination. So that's why they're so supportive of one another because it's like, man, I know what it's like to be miserable. And I don't know what your shoes are like. But I definitely know what it was like when I felt that way. And I don't want you to feel that way. So everyone really helps one another. And that's definitely been a huge benefit for me. 33:28 So another one that I watch is these interviews that W May does with celebrities. And my favorite one like the best one and all the comments are like for Cardi B is amazing her ASMR because she's she watches ASMR. I love ASMR. 33:49 My husband thinks it's very strange and weird. 33:55 That I watch ASMR every single day. 34:02 But it gives me a very sinking sensation. 34:12 That's really powerful to know that you're not just, you know, you're not just making this dude laugh. You are actually helping them sleep, you are changing their anxiety and those things are really life changing for people. 34:32 Joining me in the studio now is the creator of the next segment, Maddie Kanakia. Thanks for coming in today. Maddie. That was certainly an intriguing podcast about a topic that I'll confess I didn't know about until we talked last week. So what sparked your interest in ASMR to begin with? Do you use it personally or have you considered using it personally? 34:53 Thanks for having me, Felix. I'm happy to be here. Um, I actually learned about ASMR About three years ago through the app vine, and there was this Viner who just made these really quick ASMR videos using Apple headphones and household objects to make these interesting sounds with her mouth. And at first, I didn't really understand it, but it prompted me to Google it. And I learned that it's a sensory thing that gives a lot of people this tingling sensation and makes them feel really calm. And it was one of those things where once you discover it, you start seeing it everywhere. And I just saw people online making Kylie Jenner ASMR, compilations roleplays, on YouTube. And it became this much bigger phenomenon that I noticed. So with this feature, I wanted to explore why it's so popular online and why people are drawn to it. And I didn't know that it's actually really helpful for anxiety and depression, and just a source of calm, so I actually don't use it myself to fall asleep. But while I was working on this podcast, I got to listen to a wide variety of ASMR and I even dabbled a little bit in creating it myself. And I've come to really appreciate it. 36:03 Great. Thanks for sharing that with us, Maddie. As was the recurring theme throughout all these podcasts. Sometimes life just sends you spiraling down new paths you never originally expected. But as we also learned from talking to our interviewees such significant, unexpected change in one's life can bring out parts of ourselves we never even realize existed, making life itself seem even more multifaceted and wonderfully curious all at once.