Unknown Speaker 0:00 It's really crazy how in a world that has had color TV for 54 years, so many TV shows and movies are still so black and white. And I'm no longer talking about the shades on the screen. I'm talking about the lack of diversity in those on screen. Today's episode is going to look specifically at the reality TV show, Big Brother, and what it's like to be a black person and a visible minority on that show. Libaan Osman is going to introduce us to a former player from the show and they'll talk about fan perspective and the first hand experience of being a minority on the show. This the Same Difference Unknown Speaker 1:04 What do all those winners of Big Brother Canada have in common? Simple. They're all white. out of seven seasons, only one winner wasn't. You see, I used to dream. That wouldn't be me. I imagined it I obsessed about it hoped one day that would get on the show and Arisa Cox, the host would say the winner of Big Brother Canada, Libaan Osman. But after the last couple of seasons of Big Brother, to be honest with you, I lost hope. I lost hope and that dream becoming a reality. Not one winner has been Black through 29 seasons of the North American version of Big Brother. Not one person has looked like me. Not one person has been worthy enough to be crowned champion. Big Brother is basically a reality television show that takes about 16 people from across the country. They throw them into this house with total strangers all to try to compete for a grand prize and the title of winner Big Brother. These contestants are cut off from the outside world. They don't have access to the incident no phone service they can't even call the family. The only communication that gets inside the house is from Big Brother. The show is even based off George Orwell's book 1984, where houseguests are watched 24/7 by surveillance while playing the game. And every week they compete in challenges that determine who controls power in the house that week. And when you look at it, there's two sets of powers the head of household and the power of veto. The head of household also known as the HOH has a duty of nominating two people for a vision that week. Those two people then compete in the power of veto competition to try and take themselves off the block. If successful, they take themselves off the block. If not, the two people remaining on the block are then voted off by the house guests in a house vote. The experience lasta about three months. A social strategy game where players strategize, manipulate, create alliances, all the tribe become crowd winner of Big Brother. Now you can understand why I'm obsessed with the show. It's such a unique experience, all about manipulation strategy, seeing how far and what people are willing to do to be crowned winner. Historically speaking, though, there's only been four winners that are people of colour. A Persian woman in Canada, a Latino man or Korean woman and the biracial Filipino in the States. It took six seasons for a person of colour in Canada to win Big Brother Canada. There's been times where I thought about going to audition taping, but I thought to myself Why? Why put myself in a position like that if I'm set up to fail, if my chances are so slim, why? The story we'll look at what it's like to be Black on reality television specifically looking at Big Brother. You'll hear me speak to Black fans of the show what got them into it, their thoughts on the recent seasons, and what the show can do to solve the representation issue. I'll be joined by former Big Brother contestant Andrew Miller who appeared on Big Brother Canada six. He will talk about his experience as a Black man on the show. Arisa Cox, the host of Big Brother, the person I dreamed of announcing my name, or beyond the show, to talk to me about her role as an executive producer of the show. And what the show is doing to address concerns raised by fans when it comes to diversity in the casting process. Unknown Speaker 5:11 I'm joined by two fans of the show Big Brother, one that started of watching recently another. It's been a longtime fan. Welcome to the show, Bunti and Ivan, How y'all doing? Unknown Speaker 5:23 Good. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 5:26 Bunti mean, you have recently talked. You recently started watching the show. Can you tell me how you got into Big Brother? Unknown Speaker 5:36 Well, I was actually at Ivan's house and he he's been telling me, not just him, but I've always seen you on Twitter tweeting about the show. But recently, I was. I was in 2000 nivens, Helston. He told me to watch one of the older seasons with him. Like he put on like, the first few episodes. He told me to give it a chance and it was actually what Season Season 20 I think he put on season 20. And he watched the first few episodes together. And then after that, I've binged the whole season. I watched also season 21. And then I recently caught up to the new season on two all stars and I've been a fan of the show. And Unknown Speaker 6:27 I've been you've been a longtime fan, can you tell me when you started watching and like how you got into the show? Unknown Speaker 6:33 I think I started watching has to be like Big Brother like 11 or 12 like as well as really early. Like Brandon and Rachel very early on. It became a family thing, like very quickly, because I don't know why we're just Sunday. We just had Global on it and my sister and I just started watching it. And I'm quickly my little brother started watching it. And since then it's just a staple of my family new season comes in. Unknown Speaker 7:07 Yeah, I was gonna ask you this. What were your first impressions just watching it? As a family? I'm guessing it was like a turn into a tradition every year like you mentioned. Can you talk to me about what were your first impressions of the show? And just the whole concept of it? What did you enjoy most was it the strategy, the relationships that people were building, or just the manipulation that was also happening in a game show like this? Unknown Speaker 7:30 I think probably the biggest thing was just the whole social experiment aspect of it cuz he had people coming into a house you've locked them from the outside world, and you don't get your phone, you don't get anything, you just get these personal relationships with people you've never met in your life. And you're, you have to trust them to gain yourself to thinking but at the same time, you know, also, they're probably manipulating you behind your back. And the funny thing is seeing a character's seeing cast talksso nice about you and then they go into the DR room and talk bad about you. Like how much mental abilities you need to play this game because every season after the first few weeks, people started going insane because this is an essence like it's a social experiment. nobody realized, track 24 seven and everything you do is just look through a camera and it doesn't doesn't happen in real life. So it's insane to put real people into this type of situation. Unknown Speaker 8:38 We're gonna ask you guys being two Black people that watch the show, there hasn't been a black winner in a normal season just in terms of either Big Brother U.S. or the Canadian version. There's been tamer backs and one the celebrities version but that was like two weeks. It seems like a lot of reality shows and a lot of publications are like trying to diversify, either they're casting, they're hiring. What are your thoughts on on Big Brothers? I want to talk to you Ivan, being a longtime fan of the show. What have you seen constantly intimate just a casting or just how how either black people are on the show and and the type of people that cast? Unknown Speaker 9:16 That's the thing about Big Brother like, even if they do cast Black people in the cast don't go far into the game, because sometimes it just comes down to they're not really like great game players like a Black person. That's just the main thing our competitions but zero interpersonal skills. He has amazing personal skills, but also like competition. And then you have floaters like it's just the you don't get that team, that genius like Black guy that really could get through the game and I'm not sure why that constantly happens every season but on top of that, like always He shows that gets ingredients predicated on a lot of showmances. And it's always funny. Like, when you have the people that come on the show, he's the guy on the girl, and everybody expects them to become the showmance, because they're both Black and you do see that it becomes automatic like these two Black people might not know each other. But then they become, they become become a couple, but they do become a union because it kind of shows the world, as opposed to watch that constantly, everything that it's always the same thing. And once it becomes dumpers in the world, they always they will only a minority, you can get stuff to watch that everything. It's always the same thing. It never changes. Unknown Speaker 10:49 I was gonna ask you, someone that started watching the show, more recently, I'm not sure if you're aware of all the stuff that that past seasons have have occurred and from the casting, but for you, well, what's it been like watching the show? And have you noticed any of this stuff? Unknown Speaker 11:05 A lot of the Black people that they casted, they never really have chance cause, like, the first few days after it starts like you always have a main alliance, and the main alliance, like, you know, like from what I've seen so far, few seasons. Like they're never in the main alliance. Like they're always a part of the group that's getting kicked off. Having one or two Black people on the cast, like, for example, like everyone going in the house, you befriend, you befriend people that are similar to you. So there's mostly white people and like, one Black person, the main alliance will always, mostly be with white people. If like, it's not like them being racist. Like, that's just how it is like from what I've seen from the seasons before. Unknown Speaker 12:07 Because you always have thing is probably those in the small amount of Black people that come from that amount of Black people, then the odds that you have like, perfect player to win this game is very small, because your pool is already very small. You broaden the pool, then you'll get your swipe. Again, you're dangerous, but then you might get like, a Derek was white but you get the Black version of Derek who was just a genius. The interest of polls already too small. So you're already on the backfoot? Unknown Speaker 12:39 What would you guys do if say you're the producer of a show kind of like this? You see issues people raising it Twitter, calling people out? Calling the show out specifically on their diversity issue? If you guys had a chance to cast the season like this? How would you cast it? What would be your steps? And like, how would you approach the critique that they've received specially the U.S. season? The U.S. season gets gets it like no other Canada, much less, but it's still there? How would you address casting for an upcoming season after hearing so much complains, especially after the untimely death of George Floyd? How would you approach casting for a show like this? Unknown Speaker 13:23 I would say, especially for the casting of the U.S. game I would approach as an I have to do a way better job in the casting interviews, because to get into big whether you're going through round and round and round. Definitely not easy. So I don't understand how you still miss these kind of microaggressions or implicit bias. And I think you you either have to implement the program, or whatever that is, to be able to find those or you just have a diversity of people interviewing these guests but I'm not sure, what was interviewing the interviewing the cast means that one thing for the USA, but I'm sure if you're able to have them get interviewed by a diversity of like a panel that is very diverse, then you kind of get to see all the different races, different people, different people on the spectrum that you need to be I think the biggest thing to do is what happened before the show. You don't want to be reactionary. And you have them on the show on the back when they are trying to fix all these issues. before they even get on the show. I would have a more thorough process when I interviewed these guys, I guess in a more diverse panel, that interviews them. I also tried to try to make sure they gave up getting when I'm when I'm casting Black people I would first of all, I would obviously upgrade the number of Black people that are on that show. And that the pool needs to be much, much bigger. Diversity of Black people industry you don't want like the model the diversity of Black people, you want a bigger pool. And you want to also just have a more robust interviewing system. Unknown Speaker 15:13 Appreciate y'all so much for coming and bringing your insight. It's a really great perspectives on on the show and interesting like ideas that I feel like casting should consider the show should consider. So I appreciate y'all for bringing your insight and your expertise. Appreciate y'all. Unknown Speaker 15:30 No problem, thanks for having us on. Unknown Speaker 15:37 Ya, you know,It's about time they put a big brother on Big Brother. So I'm trying to make big moves and do real big. You know what I mean? My name is Andrew Miller. I'm 36 years old, Toronto, Canada. Unknown Speaker 15:49 I'm joined by former Big Brother Canada contestant from season six. Some people call him Big Brother Drew, Andrew Miller. How you doing? Brother? Unknown Speaker 15:59 Sir, thank you for having me on this wonderful podcast. All right, man. COVID times, you know, you gotta gotta sleep busy. Gotta stay working. But you know, Unknown Speaker 16:10 For people listening, let me give them a little background on you. You were a contestant on season six of Big Brother Canada. You lasted I want to believe 13 days, is that correct? Unknown Speaker 16:20 I was I would say 16 but hey. Second, two weeks in the game? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 16:28 I was gonna say to a lot of people, I want to get your thoughts on this take a lot of people say Big brother is a microcosm of life. What are your thoughts on that? And do you see it that way? Unknown Speaker 16:38 Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny. Before I didn't really stand out by just after being in there and seeing it. Yeah, it was definitely a lot of comparisons to be made of how society interact within the game of Big Brother. You know, a lot of people come into the house with implicit biases, or, you know, have microaggressions and how things that you know, they just didn't realize that they brought in wisdom, everyone brings baggage, I guess where they go. And I will realize that, you know, sometimes people feel more comfortable, or I'll be what it looks like. Or sometimes people don't understand certain slang or terminology. And, you know, that's maybe you know, what I mean? For example, like, Will came all the way from from Newfoundland, understanding will took some time to understand speaking, or even like, straight people, Ryan, my buddy Ryan, from Calgary, even understanding so his experiences how he was brought up, very different, how I was brought up. So those sorts of things are definitely kind of stand out when you're, you know, the one Black guy or, or the one person that represents your community. So yeah, there's definitely a lot of comparisons there of like, how people are treated, how you treat people, how you feel comfortable with people. So yeah, I definitely think there's gonna be a microcosm of like. Unknown Speaker 17:56 You talked about being a black man on the show you were at the beginning, you were the first the only Black person on the on the cast until Marin came about a week afterwards. Can you talk about what was it like being in house people that really you're Scarborough guy, they can't really relate to your life experience, what was that that like trying to get to know these people? And then also realizing, hey, a lot of these people, like you mentioned will, who's on the season is from Newfoundland, Ryan from Calgary, like getting to know these people from all walks of different life across Canada, but they don't know what it's like to grow up in Scarborough. Unknown Speaker 18:34 Yeah, you know, I feel like sometimes you got to, like, look at the people that have products in their environments. You know, Ryan Ryan's story, you know, Ryan didn't have many black people around, you know, the black people that he saw or interacted with were people that you know, were playing football or in the CFL. So in terms of like his, you know, assimilation or conversations he was always speaking sports and stuff like that to them you know, and it's one of those things with like, if you don't have any Black friends, you're probably not gonna have start getting Black friends when you're like Big Brother. Unless you're forced or you allow yourself to be open to have conversations to get to know people. Ryan I guess and I our friendship flourish after the show because I thought like you know, in the house of different different person original perspective that you get while you're there, we were cool in the house but like after the show, we were like super cool. And and even some people that I probably will never connect with them, that's fine, because they just don't might be my personality or you know, personally. I think that's one thing that happens. Sometimes it's personality thing. And sometimes it might be something a little deeper, but either way, it's like people people they want to fit in people connect with you they want to connect with, you know, that. Even Erica Erica from Toronto, are from Pickering, technically, you know, I had I felt like I had an opportunity to be close with her. But that quickly changed the once she got comfortable with people that look more like her, you know, I think that's the thing, like, we kind of officially fall back on what works or what's going to get us further in the game. And that's similar to what works with life, you know, people are in a position of privilege or opportunity, let's stick together and keep those that aren't, repressed and get them out of here. Just like, you know, society that way, like, you play the numbers game, if there's more people on my side over here, this small group of people over here that are struggling, and we've made more sense to me to allow them to be the bigger numbers, and then pretend like everything is fine over here, when it's not. So it's one of those things was like, hopefully, these things change with the new season, big brother as well. So a lot of things that, you know, I think Arisa, and a lot of the executive producers I've seen, even viewers have seen, you're a big fan of a lot of the conversations that happen on Twitter or on the live feeds. And then these are things that don't actually go into the episodes. So for people to see the injustices and say nothing, we're not really doing anything to help. So I think reality TV is definitely in a state of flux, where they're no longer looking to have the one person of representation or one token representation, we're actually trying to, you know, have a full diverse cast of people of various backgrounds and various points of views. So hopefully, that'll make for a better overall program, and give opportunity to people that have been that disenchanted before. Unknown Speaker 21:28 For you, a former contestant, what can Big Brother do for you to be satisfied, or just address the implicit biases that exists in these shows and just for you to watch this show and be content with how BIPOC people are treated? And just the chances that they have when it comes to a game like this? What can they do for you? Unknown Speaker 21:50 It's not just representation in front of the camera. Yeah, of course, you can catch more Black and we can cast more Asians or more Aboriginal or Indigenous people. And it's fine, you know what I mean. But I think realistically, we need to have more people behind the scenes that are editing the contents, that are picking out what the narrative is that are producing the show, that we have more context for people to understand. It's not just fluff. There's actually a little bit of substance mixed in with it, too. So I know that you know, some people are tired of us talking about racism. Imagine how it's hard we are experiencing it. How tired we are seeing our people get get drilled, get killed, and get isolated. Unknown Speaker 22:32 Everything you're saying resonates with me too. As someone that's wanted to get on the show, we've talked about this before me and you off off camera, but it's kind of like push me away. I'm interested still. But let's see what happens this season. And then Unknown Speaker 22:47 I also want to you know, I also want to encourage people and I always I always bump into people that I want to give the show too I want to do this and that's fine. But I just want to tell everyone, there is more to life than reality TV. Tthere's more to life than being in front of a camera. There are many wonderful things you can do that can impacted me that create change, that you can inspire by doing things other than just being on reality TV. Yeah, it's cool to be on TV. I have a couple cool gifts and means whatever. But at the end of the day, guys, let's very slick very small. You know, it's trying to be rising. We need more more leaders in our community. We need more politicians, more doctors, we need more. I hate to say it, we need more Black police officers. You know, maybe we have more Black police officers, my boy Devonte Miller probably wouldn't have gotten lost in the Bible. You know, I mean, like we need more more representation throughout all streams of our lives. So hopefully, that is you know that stuff resonates. Unknown Speaker 23:44 Yeah, thank you so much, Andrew, you spoke so beautifully so eloquently and I can't thank you enough for hopping on this and giving us your time appreciate you so much. Unknown Speaker 23:53 Appreciate your brother in what you try to do in your communities and the stories that you're telling. Just keep telling those stories, you know people need to see and it's not just like hopefully it's not just people of colour that are writing stories. I don't want to see more people, more allies outside of our community you know, planting seeds and and trying to create change in their own season either Big Brother Canada. Maybe. Unknown Speaker 24:34 Well, I will tell you right now, you wanted an exclusive our for the weekend. is a minimum of half the cast will be Black, Indigenous, people of colour. Minimum. Unknown Speaker 24:52 How are you doing? Unknown Speaker 25:05 Good? Thank you. So yeah, I was gonna start by asking you how did the conversation begin about becoming an executive producer and just like, how did that that whole process come about foryou? Unknown Speaker 25:18 Well, I come from the world of journalism. So I have been very used to being my own producer and writer, as well, as you know, booking interviews and doing interviews and cutting stories and running stories like all of that. I'm very used to. In fact, this was more of the outlier in terms of my career, a place where I was the host, but not all those other things. So I think, in some ways, it was a really natural progression, because I am an absolute diehard superfan on Big Brother, Canada. So I think I have a lot to bring to the table in terms of knowledge of our fan base of super fans of casuals, and also, what the potential is of show like Big Brother Canada. And I'm also a Black person. And I see things that other people don't see. So I think it was I think it was a progression. And kudos to Canada, the vanguard, all coolest aspects of Big Brother, and what it could be. Absolutely made sense. Unknown Speaker 26:34 I don't know how much detail you can provide on this. But I was gonna ask, like, how has casting gone so far without providing too much details? And just like how excited are you just like eight days left to apply? Like, how many people I don't know how you can say applied,but like, how applicants so far, how thrilled are you? Unknown Speaker 26:54 I think anytime you hear that the door is open for different kinds of people, I think it's going to have an impact. And it certainly has quoted lighting. Big Brother Canada is about to enter season nine like we have no business. So hi, for those people are showing up. People who haven't before. I have a challenge this year, of course, because of COVID-19 we don't tour that has changed things significantly, right where somebody who might not want to do a video would just show up with their friends to a casting call. This time is so important that we get this incredibly spicy, flavourful cast. So we need people to tell, to spread the word for us and to share with people who aren't necessarily, you know, aren't necessarily, you know, Instagram influencers. We want all kinds of different people from different walks of life, with different ethnicities and identities and sexualities. And even from, you know, smaller and bigger parts of the country in places we don't know. So I think that's always our goal. But we're, we've been able to safely express it, I think, making a huge impact. But we need, we need everyone if we ever want to be on the same page with us and want to make the best and most inclusive season ever. Unknown Speaker 28:24 I remember when you hopped on the minority Minority Report. Can you talk about you announced there that the goal is to have at least half the cast feature BIPOCi ndividuals. I'm guessing, kind of give me a timetable when those discussions happened. In terms of just like, with other executive producers, and just like, with Big Brother, I'm guessing it was like you guys took time, you know, you guys were like, let's examine this and see what we can change.And then I can say that. Unknown Speaker 29:01 That push was over some time. So that was many, many conversations, all levels of people who are part of our show and network. I mean, that was one thing to be renewed. It was another thing to finally also become an EP, and then it was a third thing to intention because it really does take intention. Right. It's so easy to say, well, we just are working with what we've got. Well, yeah, but if we expand the possibilities of what we can do, you know, hopefully the cast and the viewers can meet us there too. And so it's a matter of what has been not holding you back from what can be exclusive on the Minority Report. Andrew, Hanza and Marin was one of the absolute highlights of my career. Being able to say what so many fans of reality TV have felt over the years, over many, many years, right? Reality TV has been around for about 20 years. On a reality show, and it was an incredible experience, and I was also only the, you know, the only Black person on the cast. Right? So this has felt like, a huge step that, you know, one day you won't have to say that. One day, you won't have to say out loud, what we're aiming for about it, because it's just gonna be the norm eventually, right? But I know our show as a team like we really want to be leaders. If we have in any way encouraged a movement elsewhere, in reality TV like this huge move by CBS, like amazing, it'severything we could have dreamed. Unknown Speaker 31:19 I was gonna ask you, I know you're a humble person. But how much of a lead like shout out to survivor players such as like Tia Brice, who have also in terms of getting CBS to also do the same thing? But for you? Like? How much of a lead do you feel like you played in changing like the landscape for like future reality shows cuz I feel like a lot of people give you credit, rightfully so, because like, when you tweeted that out, I think was in August, so many people responded. And I remember one quote specific, where you said something like, minorities shouldn't remain minorities on reality television show and like that resonate with me heavy. So I wanted to like, get your thoughts on like, I know, you're notyou don't want to take credit for all this. But how much and how much. Unknown Speaker 32:07 I can't I can't take credit for every, I just can't like, I'm so proud of the survivor community for all they did for support. I'm so proud of the people going to Big Brother us communities, which helped push this forward, as well, your day boss and your babies. I think I am so incredibly thrilled by our team, and our casting director and our other executive producers for really understanding what this all could mean. And that it's only positive, you know? It can only be positive. I am extremely proud to be part of that wave. But if you're asking me to step in and toot my own horn, your own Canadian, right? I can't do that for you. But I do know that sometimes a nudge is required, sometimes a big push is required. There's moment that a push would be required. These conversations that have been had in the industry since the summer about racial justice. This is one part of it. One layer of it. But it's been a many layer cake, right? That we're all eating this year. So I think everyone has been finding ways in which they can improve the world. Everybody wants to take a step forward, not everybody. Not everybody wants to improve. But for me, there are so few Black men and women in leadership positions and that I take this role seriously. I take it seriously because we are creating the future that we want to see. So if I have worked so hard for this opportunity, I don't want to waste it. I don't want to sit back and say well, we could do something drastic, but that would be to period we could do but I don't want to. I want to do as much as we can. And luckily I have a really advanced team who get it. Not everybody can say that right that people feel like they're shouting into the wind where they want to see that change. But I have amazing people around me and and also been inspired by so many people here in Canada who had those uncomfortable conversations. You know, I am inspired by I go off. Grants. I'm inspired by rapid soon and are welcome soon. And Imani and all the people who've spoken up about what their experiences were like being a minority in Canadian media. So I think there's been an incredible fellowship that has developed over time. I mean, it was already there in some ways. But it's really sharpened this summer and this fall, and everybody seems to be rooting for everybody else. And I don't mean just people within the black community or within the BIPOC community at large. I mean, everyone. And that's beautiful, beautiful. Unknown Speaker 35:41 What do you say to people that have either like the lost hope of bit in like, seeing how like, because like, sometimes you like you don't see, like, you see, like a Tamar Braxton who won, but not on a normal audition. Right? But for people that have lost hope on like seeing like, themselves represented as a winner and be like, if I got on, like, my chances are slim, what do you say to those people going into the season? Unknown Speaker 36:05 Well, I think this is a new era. I think people are walking into 2021 with new eyes. And as an aside, I almost mean like, you know, I'm Black, Black, I am Black, I will be Black. Some of these conversations, and these thoughts have always been around, it's not new. But the fact that so many other people can understand why these big steps like that. And that is worth giving it a chance for I think, reality television has a really unique ability, and the responsibility to do more to show what's what the world can be with existing people, with real people. So I think we have to take, we have to take our shot. And I hope that as many people I hope a lot of people are ready to come along with us on this ride. Unknown Speaker 37:27 You said beautifully, like, I'm I'm hopeful just after talking to you. I was hopeful when you announced it. When I when I heard you became an executive producer. So I just want to say thank you so much for taking time out your day to speak with me. I can't I can't thank you enough. It's an honour. Like I said before, this is like cross off the bucket list,you know, Unknown Speaker 37:47 It's so exciting and I'm glad like, it was hard to explain to people who hadn't watched that Minority Report episode, like how special that moment was. Unknown Speaker 37:59 was. And then seeing their faces to when you announced it Unknown Speaker 38:02 was like, Oh my god, I couldn't watch all day long through their faces. But it just seems like I don't know if you remember even Hanza when he brought it up. Unknown Speaker 38:16 He didn't thinkit was coming. That's what that's what made us so good. Unknown Speaker 38:20 I wasn't even sure how much should I tell them? I'll like my moment. And then he teed it up, like I could not have planned it better. I was like, Oh my God. When you look back, and it's actually it shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is in some ways. The fact that it just means that we needed to make this change probably a while ago. And here we are right now is the time when you know the door is open. So the key is to step through with as many people as you can look back on this year and say, oh, okay, that was the year things changed. Unknown Speaker 39:01 Better now than never. Thanks again. Unknown Speaker 39:08 The journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step. I say that to myself often. Like you can do everything all the time at once. But you can take a step. Unknown Speaker 39:32 Libaan Osman shining some serious light on onscreen racial and cultural diversity, or lack thereof. And huge thanks to our executive producer Emily Morantz, associate producer Manuela Vega, artwork by Ben Shelley theme, music composed by John Powers. I've been your host Gracie Brison. And last but not least, Amanda Cupido deserves a huge shout out a member of the cast of an upcoming reality TV show. But we can't tell you which one. And remember fitting in is overrated.