Unknown Speaker 0:00 Feminism has come an incredibly long way in the last 10 or so years, women are more appreciated and more respected. And there just seems to be more conversations about feminism than there ever has been before. But if you think about it, is that the case for all women, is feminism and this feeling of empowerment as inclusive for all women of all shapes, sizes, cultures, and skin tones. In this episode, Leen Blaibleh dives into what feminism is for minority women and women of colour and how the future of feminism can be more inclusive for all. This is Same Difference. Unknown Speaker 0:44 For some women, feminism is a way to unify experiences and for others it's widely misunderstood. Feminism has always been perceived as a white woman's cause despite it affecting women of all ethnicities and backgrounds, it can be misinterpreted and is often attached to negative stereotypes. These stereotypes are constantly being portrayed in the media we consume, causing women of colour to feel excluded and misinformed about the cause. Instead of uniting women, feminism is creating a divide. I first noticed this when I became a little more interested in learning about the feminist movement. I would read, watch movies and documentaries, and I felt that they were portraying feminism as a cause for only a certain demographic. I remember feeling like I wasn't represented enough as an Arab woman. And I figured if I felt that way, other minority women might feel the same too. In this episode, I will share women's experiences of exclusion and the lack of belonging they feel towards the feminist movement. This will engage a new conversation of feminism from voices that are underrepresented, like women of colour and minority women. We're going to hear from Jacinda Frazier, who will talk about her experience of being a mother and raising a young daughter to be strong, confident and go after what she wants. Unknown Speaker 2:07 What does feminism mean to me? To me, feminism is the fair and equitable treatment of women for their inclusion, participation and advancement in all aspects of society. It is the advocacy of the rights representation and ultimate respect for women. Do I feel like Black women are represented enough? No, I feel that Black women, in particular, have not been well or sufficiently represented in society, in higher level positions in the workforce, in traditionally male dominated careers in positions of leadership, media, politics, education, or research, etc. Only recently have we begun to see the spotlight on black men and women and what they can achieve through the Black Lives Matter movement. I believe this has happened in the past through previous civil rights movements where some gains have been made. But then we fall back into a rut without any lasting change. So I believe there's a lots of change left to be made, to see Black woman positively, and to be represented widespread across all domains of society. For me, the lack of representation of the positive and influential impact of black woman and society has placed the emphasis on me as the primary influencer and role model for my daughter. So there's an emphasis to demonstrate to her that all things are possible for her to be and achieve. It's important for me to convey to her that she's beautiful, worthy, valuable, intelligent, capable of achieving anything she puts her mind to. It's important for me to encourage her to reach high and not limit herself or fall into stereotypes, ceiling limits, or preset molds. I want to encourage her not to walk with a grudge or a lens of anticipating racism, or racist acts against her. Something our pastor had said recently, that really, I think speaks to this is that we should not be influenced by the moment or by our environment, but we should instead influence the moment and our environment, for His glory for God's glory. So yes, there is a lack of representation, but we have a goal to which we strive, and that is the upper call of Christ. I want to build an environment where there are depictions and examples of positive Black female and males, and also build a community of these individuals to help educate and mentor her in a positive light. How do you resolve or deal with problems when it comes to motherhood? My faith is a large part of resolving problems as a mother, I cast all my cares to God and then wait for his direction. Being married I would discuss any issues or concerns with my husband as we try to address or create a plan to address the issue at hand in agreement. Ultimately, I want to address problems in a timely manner where we're possible because I don't want issues to grow or spiral out of hand. And I want to maintain an open communication with my children. But especially my daughter because building a positive relationship with her at this age and stage of her life is key. They do have a support network. Fortunately, I have a small group of female friends like trust and can confide in for their wisdom, direction and creative, creative solution finding. I also belong to a small fellowship group at church comprised of moms, where we meet weekly to review the sermon, and how it applies to our lives as mothers. Unknown Speaker 5:46 I want to be a family lawyer because I like dealing with family I like watching younger kids, babies, toddlers. I like just working in general with the family environment. And I also like talking a lot and debating. So I think those two would go together and that's why I want to be a family lawyer. Unknown Speaker 6:08 This is Nia Frazier, Jacinda's daughter. She is 12 years old and on her way to becoming a well known family lawyer in the city. Nia strong family values helped her realize what she wanted to be at a young age. Let's hear what she has to say. Unknown Speaker 6:24 I'm 12 turning 13 at the end of this year. My hobbies are I like sports. I like cooking, like basketball, skating, swimming. I like listening to music. I like nature. My favorite subjects are mathand gym. As a young lady, I would say as a young lady it means being a role model to others, you others that are younger than me, for example, my cousins, or my friends, my younger friends. It means having my own opinion, having a voice and speaking out for things that stand out to me and that need to be spoken out. It means having the confidence to do that and not being afraid and being like oh, caring about what others think. But having the confidence to do it because you notice right it means being strong and being wise and doing things when it's necessary and when it's important. Unknown Speaker 7:32 Next we're going to be hearing from Rwan Buel. She is currently a PhD student who specializes in international affairs and is passionate about women's issues. Rwan is also a social activist and organizes community events like marches and protests. She uses Instagram as her main platform to raise awareness. So let's start out by talking about what feminism means to you as an Arab Palestinian Muslim woman. Unknown Speaker 8:02 Feminism has always been something that I've, I've really found myself in. And so initially, I had I had found feminism on Twitter, but to be very completely honest, I was around 14 or 15 years old, really being in that Twitter scene really following Black feminists, Indigenous feminists, you know, Iranian feminists, Afghani feminists, and of course, Palestinian feminists and not even knowing what feminism is not even understanding them as feminists just following women or trans folks, or, or non binary folks in general, just a lot of queer folks predominantly, I would say, because that is where the discourse is coming out of. So I really had a queer feminist approach when I was younger, even though I didn't understand it as queer feminist, but it was a queer feminist approach. Right? So yeah, I think I started to really understand oppression. And I started to really understand. of course, like, women's oppression. And so I was living in Saudi Arabia at the time, and I was already dealing with so much women oppression as, as a young 15 year old girl, not really even understanding myself as a woman, not understanding that I am fit into this category of women, but still understanding that I do fit in the category of women because I have had to experience certain things and wear certain things and people have reacted to me in certain spaces, in certain ways, right? Because of because of how I look. Feminism to me was kind of like actually understanding what it means to be oppressed, essentially, and what it means that I'm performing these things performing femininity, but more so understanding what my positionality is, in terms of a state like Saudi Arabia, that that is oppressive to women, right? And understanding that my oppression is not alone, if that makes sense. So I am not solely oppressed, and these things are ongoing, and these things are continuous and these things are global. And so for me to read certain things and understand certain things, it was really great growing up, because I understood that I wasn't alone in this. And there were people out there that, you know, are writing on these things. And they're theorizing about these things. They're experiencing it firsthand, in the same ways that I'm experiencing it firsthand. And so to me, that was that was liberation, you know, in a sense of, I've acknowledged that I'm feeling oppressed, for instance, I'm feeling a certain way. I'm feeling unfreedom. Unknown Speaker 10:48 Do you identify as a feminist? Unknown Speaker 10:51 Yes, of course, I identify as a feminist, but it's definitely important to identify what kind of feminist you are. So again, I will identify as an Arab, Muslim, Palestinian feminist. And I think that's important again, because then I can take things from an intersectional lens, where I'm not obviously my identities aren't being the intersectional part. But it is to say that I understand things from an Islamophobic lens, you know what I mean? So understanding that this layer of oppression of Islamophobia is going to impact me, this layer of oppression of settler colonialism is going to impact me. In Palestine, and also here, understanding that, for example, I benefit from the settler state, as an immigrant and as a white passing woman but I also don't benefit from the settler state, from the nation state, at least, because I'm an immigrant. And because I'm an Arab Palestinian woman. So understanding these things, and and really understanding the intersectionality of different oppressions is something that we really need to work towards, in feminism and I think that's already, you know, been within the third wave. But I also think it's important when you're identifying yourself as a feminist to really identify what kind of feminism you're upholding, right? Unknown Speaker 12:06 As a person who is constantly involved in social justice movements, what do you hope to achieve? Unknown Speaker 12:13 I've been involved in organizing work around Palestine for about, I want to say five years now, and even though some of it is on an off, and even though some of it might not be as immersed as some years where it is to say that I've been involved in it for a long time, and what I've hoped to achieve within those years. First of all, it starts off as like raising awareness, of course. And I think that's important, because I think for me, I was still learning, I was still going on this path of understanding and learning settler colonialism back home and understanding what it means to be a Palestinian woman, what it means to be a Muslim Palestinian woman. How does intersectionality come into play? How does feminism come into play and all these different things? And of course, I'm still learning. But I think right now, my my vision, for for being involved in social justice movements have has radically changed in terms of, I'm not just looking to raise awareness, even though that's great. And I think that's important. And that's a great starting point. But I think for me, it's to actually have material and tangible change. So for instance, sharing posts on social media. While it's great, it doesn't actually have much tangible change unless you are sharing a post that is trying to get like a Black trans woman out of jail for instance. Or you are sharing something that is material or going out and actually doing the on the ground material work. Unknown Speaker 13:48 Emilia de Silva is a 24 year old woman who grew up in the GTA, she now runs her own eyelash enhancement business for women and uses Instagram as her main platform for activism. While simultaneously promoting and growing Emelia Lashes, she's going to talk to us about what feminism means to her and how she promotes inclusivity while running her business. Unknown Speaker 14:12 There have definitely been times that stand out more than others have when I've felt excluded based on my gender and even race. Everyday to me is a reminder of what it is to be a woman whether it's waking up and having to put on appropriate clothes, putting on makeup, how we must act, suppressing my culture to stay in the norm. All of it I feel like contributes to what it is to be a woman. And an example of what I felt this way, would have been when I was in university. One of my smaller classes It was a sport law class of 40 students. Of the 40 students 30 of them were men. 10 of them being women. And if that didn't already seem off of the whole entire class, I was the only coloured person. This was a common theme in most of my university experience studying sport media. I realized that I had the struggles of being a woman in sports. Yes. But I had it a little bit harder being a coloured woman in sports. I was frequently asked questions like, what sports would you play in your home country? Unknown Speaker 15:22 There is I feel like there is an argument if feminism is exclusive nowadays. I could say I think that there is definitely an ideal standard to being a woman and what a feminist should be fighting for. There should be more argument, I feel, for the women that are too afraid to speak up because they don't need, they don't meet the ideal standard. That being what we see in our televisions, magazines, what society wants us to be perfect females that strive for the best, but what about the females that are just working towards supporting their families. They matter too. Feminism isn't just to fight for women who do amazing things for the world as men seem to do. But it's also the ability to do amazing things for themselves and for their loved ones, to be able to just live and breathe without comparison. I try to do my part everyday by just teaching my social group. So that being friends I have on social media, people I talk to on a daily basis, and people I just come like across randomly, you know? I tried to embrace my culture as much as I can, as I am a colour woman. The cool thing is that these days, a lot of people ask questions, and I feel like that's the first step into a bigger change. I never hesitate to answer and or educate anyone on anything, especially regarding being female of an ambiguous nationality culture Unknown Speaker 16:43 So, I definitely think by me doing my part, and embracing who I am, where I've come from, and me just not being ashamed of it, me really owning it. In my business, we don't discriminate against women's color, we don't discriminate against the texture of their hair, all of my posts include all types of females. We empower them. And we just try to make them feel as beautiful as we possibly can. And this is just by enhancing what they already have. We don't try to change who they are. We want them to again, embrace who they are. And yeah, again, all my posts are super, super positive and inclusive of every nationality, every like hair texture. It's just to make sure that women feel that whatever they have going on is completely normal. Whether they have curly eyelashes that are extremely hard to lash, or super thin ones, you know, like or blonde ones, like it doesn't matter. You don't have to be perfect. It's it's what you are and whatever you have is, is what makes you beautiful. Unknown Speaker 17:47 After listening to three women's perspective on feminism, and what can be done to make it more inclusive, these stories are part of a larger movement pushing women to gradually fix the future of feminism and create a sense of belonging around it. How do you think we can make feminism more inclusive in the future? Unknown Speaker 18:06 I believe we can continue to make feminism more inclusive by being mindful of including representing and compensating women in education, research, politics, arts, professional and skilled trades, work force platforms and many more. It's giving us the opportunity to tell our stories, to demonstrate our skills and showcase our excellent unique design to the world. Unknown Speaker 18:32 I think it's to say that, you know, it's not just about raising awareness or about understanding feminism just from particular lenses. It's it's, you know, Kimberly Crenshaw, obviously coined this, it's to take intersectional approaches, but really know what intersectionality means. I mean, not really taking in like, oh, I'm an intersectional feminist because I have this identity and that identity and this identity, or I have these values, it's to say that understanding that transphobia is a structure understanding that you know, anti queerness, or homophobia as a structure, understanding that Islamophobia as a structure, understanding settler colonialism, anti Blackness, anti Indigeneity, all these different structures, all these different oppressive structures, understanding them, and not like piling them on, not layering them on. But it's to say that understanding that all of these structures are interlinked. And if we don't interlink our struggles with one another, then we can't interlink our liberation because our liberation is also interlinked within our struggles. Right? Unknown Speaker 19:34 I think a way to make them as a more inclusive, at least for the future is opportunities. I think that there needs to be a lot more opportunities for women of all races, religions, beliefs, this being jobs, media coverage, and I think it's the little things that we do everyday that can create a bigger impact for the future. Unknown Speaker 19:54 As we wrap up this episode, I hope these personal stories resonate with you today. And I hope the experiences of these women make you feel excited about feminism and creating a sense of belonging around the movement. I'm glad these women want to share their experiences with me. And I'm grateful I get to use this platform to highlight their voices. After listening to their stories, I feel hopeful about a future that is going to empower the next generation of young women. I want to end this episode by asking you, what steps can you take to create a sense of belonging around feminism and make it more inclusive? I hope this episode inspires you to take small steps and make a difference. Unknown Speaker 20:41 That episode is one that I think a lot of people need to hear. Celebrating how we are such boss ass women shouldn't be an exclusive club. Leen Blaibleh showed us that for Episode 15. And thanks to our executive producer Emily Morantz associate producer Manuela Vega, artwork by Ben Shelley, theme music composed by John Powers. I've been your host Gracie Brison and shout out to Amanda Cupido, the boss ass woman herself. And remember, fitting in is overrated.